Escher sentences are ungrammatical because a matrix clause subject like more people is making a comparison between two sets of individuals, but there is no such set of individuals in the second clause.[5] For the sentence to be grammatical, the subject of the second clause must be a bare plural.[6] Linguists have marked that it is “striking” that, despite the grammar of these sentences not possibly having a meaningful interpretation, people so often report that they sound acceptable,[7] and that it is “remarkable” that people seldom notice any error.[5]
Huh, cool! No I’m being serious. It makes sense to me, even if it isn’t grammatical – i wouldn’t notice that it wasn’t grammatical except that it was pointed out in the meme.
Maybe how much sense it makes is determined culturally.
If i were trying to remove more ambiguity, i would say, “I have been to Berlin zero times. More people have been to Berlin than I have been.”
The last “been” is one of those “assumed” words that linguists talk about people leaving out of sentences.
What are you actually trying to say though? The sentence ostensibly compares two values. “Number of times you’ve been to Berlin” vs “Amount of people who’ve been to Berlin”. You can’t compare those two. As a maths teacher would say, you’re mixing your units.
Exactly. It is an ambiguous sentence. The interesting thing for me is how I could read it and not realize it was ambiguous because of my brain trying to fill in the gaps and understand what the other person was trying to say.
If I’ve never been to Berlin, than the number of people who have been to Berlin is greater than the number of me.
Where P = number of people who have been to Berlin.
Me = number of me, who hasn’t been to Berlin = 1
P > 1.
It seems like what you’re saying is that this sentence either obvious on its face, because Berlin is a major City that plenty of people have obviously been to, or ambiguous that it is comparing the number of times I’ve been to Berlin to something undefined. I would agree that on closer inspection, the question is ambiguous!
I would also say that P is also implicitly context dependent, in other undefined ways. Perhaps i mean that there are other people in my situation who have been to Berlin, where i have not.
One underlying assumption I’m discovering through this discussion is that to me, the sentence implies that the speaker has been to Berlin zero times. But on closer inspection, that isn’t the only way to read it. In a context where it wasn’t clear if the speaker had been to Berlin or not, it would make much less sense.
Have you heard of the book “thinking fast and slow?” by kahneman? I’m not sure how rigorous the science is, but it has other examples of sentences that people will interpret incorrectly if they aren’t thinking carefully, because of the way that brains make unconscious assumptions to save energy and try not to think that hard.
Some examples are, “What do Cows drink?” people who have to answer quickly without thought tend to say milk.
Another:
(1) A bat and a ball cost $1.10 in total. The bat costs $1.00 more than the ball.
But this sentence does have meaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_illusion
ah prescriptive linguistics, never change.
This isn’t prescriptive linguistics
if these linguists are surprised that people use language however they like then they sure as beans ain’t descriptive.
i don’t think people are naturally speaking in Escher sentences.
i mean if you say
Nobody is surprised by anything. They’re describing a phenomenon that happens in language.
Can you rephrase it to show the meaning more clearly?
Sure.
This is an example of a sentence that has meaning.
Ok. Thought you were talking about Berlin.
Berlin doesn’t have meaning.
“I have been to Berlin zero times. More people have been to Berlin than i have.”
Are you joking because that makes no sense
Huh, cool! No I’m being serious. It makes sense to me, even if it isn’t grammatical – i wouldn’t notice that it wasn’t grammatical except that it was pointed out in the meme.
Maybe how much sense it makes is determined culturally.
If i were trying to remove more ambiguity, i would say, “I have been to Berlin zero times. More people have been to Berlin than I have been.”
The last “been” is one of those “assumed” words that linguists talk about people leaving out of sentences.
Let me know if that makes more sense.
What are you actually trying to say though? The sentence ostensibly compares two values. “Number of times you’ve been to Berlin” vs “Amount of people who’ve been to Berlin”. You can’t compare those two. As a maths teacher would say, you’re mixing your units.
I feel like the sentence is trying to communicate
This relies on some illusionary filling in the gaps.
Exactly. It is an ambiguous sentence. The interesting thing for me is how I could read it and not realize it was ambiguous because of my brain trying to fill in the gaps and understand what the other person was trying to say.
Huh, oh i see what you’re saying now.
If I’ve never been to Berlin, than the number of people who have been to Berlin is greater than the number of me.
Where P = number of people who have been to Berlin.
Me = number of me, who hasn’t been to Berlin = 1
P > 1.
It seems like what you’re saying is that this sentence either obvious on its face, because Berlin is a major City that plenty of people have obviously been to, or ambiguous that it is comparing the number of times I’ve been to Berlin to something undefined. I would agree that on closer inspection, the question is ambiguous!
I would also say that P is also implicitly context dependent, in other undefined ways. Perhaps i mean that there are other people in my situation who have been to Berlin, where i have not.
One underlying assumption I’m discovering through this discussion is that to me, the sentence implies that the speaker has been to Berlin zero times. But on closer inspection, that isn’t the only way to read it. In a context where it wasn’t clear if the speaker had been to Berlin or not, it would make much less sense.
Have you heard of the book “thinking fast and slow?” by kahneman? I’m not sure how rigorous the science is, but it has other examples of sentences that people will interpret incorrectly if they aren’t thinking carefully, because of the way that brains make unconscious assumptions to save energy and try not to think that hard.
Some examples are, “What do Cows drink?” people who have to answer quickly without thought tend to say milk.
Another:
Most people answering quickly say $0.10
Good one.