The voting is part of it yes?
yeah I don’t get the hate. I never interpret these as “voting doesn’t matter, don’t do it”. but I guess that’s not common, in which case, fair
vote, but execute [action ]as well
Dululo Americans shitting with rage seeing stuff like this, they will do anything but acknowledge that Donald will just say it’s rigged or rig it himself and get the courts to side with him, they’ll do nothing once it happens and continuing to cry and point fingers like the do here.
I know this is true because when ONE German state (not the country as a whole) picked a far right candidate, Soooo many of you losers here were Soooo quick to point the finger say your no better even though it was a far lower scale issue and far easier to containe but they were so happy to go haha, you should over throw your gov, like a Bunch of school children when it was only one province with low relevance.
Your pathetic.
Do both. Vote and rebel. Hit all fronts.
See I support this, it’s the people who think voting by itself will suddenly fix everything that I think are delusional.
Exactly! Why so many people seem to think you can’t do both is bizarre to me. Makes you wonder if they’re actually arguing in good faith or not.
I sometimes wonder if the majority on Lemmy are here solely for arguments.
Well many here are just rejected redditer so…
(me included btw))
I’ve found that a lot of reddit users recently migrated to Lemmy and brought their bad faith with them. As well just generally acting like dipshits.
There’s legitimate money and special interests to sway the election. Whether that’s with bots or paying for troll farms to post propaganda
This is the most sane answer here - fighting one war while letting them win the other isn’t wise. Doing both and securing all the fronts is how we win.
And we certainly dont win by calling each other dipshits - unless your mission is to dismantle the left.
I see we are ramping up the anti voting memes up ahead of the American election, comrades.
'Tis the season, after all. The leaves’re changing, time to prime the plebs.
Democrats not turning out in 2024 IS what got trump and the GOP into majority power in all branches of government. Now they wanna make sure you don’t come out so the dictatorship can finish its installation.
Correct. But I am pointing out the increase in “voting doesn’t work” rhetoric, which only helps right wing extremists.
There is no left wing extremist party but not voting doesn’t make that happen.
The right wing extremists have been compromising for decades by picking the furthest right candidate available but for whatever reason voices purported to be on the left keep demanding purity tests, which to me is antithetical to leftism but that’s a whole different topic.
You cant generally vote fascists out once they’ve sufficiently subverted or removed democratic processes, but they can be voted in especially if they’re the ones motivated to actually do so, their efforts to subvert those processes take a variable amount of time to complete that sometimes means they’re not totally done by the next election cycle, and even in the case of rigged/subverted elections, its not like they’ll suddenly become more fascist if people vote against them but won’t if people don’t do that.
It’s also not like voting, when possible, takes away a person’s ability to also try anything else. So, unless you have good reason to believe that a given election is actively dangerous, like that they’re only holding it to learn who would vote against them given the option or something like that, it makes sense to participate if the option exists.
Worst case, the election is meaningless and one wastes a small amount of time in trying it. Best case, you overestimated how much the process had already been subverted and the election system proves to be still functional. In neither case does casting a vote against someone that seems to be a fascist or similar make them more likely to succeed than if you’d simply stayed home.
If people voting against them did benefit fascists, they wouldn’t spend so much effort on undermining elections and voter intimidation, it would be counterproductive.
Yeah, it sucked when they had to invade to get Orban out of office…
Orban was not a fascist what are you talking about
I’m seeing a weird amount of anti-voting posts 2 months before an extremely consequential midterm that’s very likely to shift the balance in Congress unless an incredible amount of voter suppression occurs (and oh look, lots of sketchy voter suppression is going on, plus it would be very inexpensive to spin up some social media campaigns to try to discourage voting)
[After an election] “Voting won’t fix things.”
“…”
[7 months later] “Voting won’t fix things.”
“…”
[7 months later] “Voting won’t fix things.”
“…”
[7 months later] “Voting won’t fix things.”
“Ever notice how you only ever see people saying this right before an election?”
Hitler was appointed by Hindenburg
Isn’t that more evidence that you can’t stop fascism by voting?
We have never gotten rights or rights back from voting for them. A lot of people died for our rights and I’m not talking about soldiers. Miners, farm workers, industrial workers, healthcare, etc. It required many deaths for change to be made and it was force. Remember Stone Wall was a riot!
Most rights we got were from voting it is untrue to say we got them through violence. I don’t think it is right to tell people to go die for change when non-violent options lead to solutions.
Disability Act, Women’s right to vote, removal of the poor tax on voting, Indian Citizenship Act.
The Battle of Blair mountain for instance caused an immediate backlash that historians actually believe delayed worker’s rights. Stonewall happened decades before any policy change. Making your voice heard and educating people to join up in collective action is what makes change, violence either causes backlash or completely collapses a government. The French Revolution for instance ended in military dictatorship. Violence will happen but it is absolutely not true to say it causes change, it often doesn’t.
And then there are the dozens of elections that resulted in positive policy change that required no violence, dozens of non-violent movements that did cause sweeping changes directly.
If voting didn’t matter, they would not put so much effort and money into denying people’s vote.
Historically and politically illiterate, dead wrong, embarassing
https://adata.org/learn-about-ada/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Citizenship_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_suffrage_in_the_United_States
The Battle of Blair mountain caused a steep drop in labor unions, nearly bankrupted the UMWA and these conversations didn’t continue until like almost a decade later.
The French Revolution brought a reign of terror which birthed into an ineffective and corrupt government that then fell to Napleon, who you can talk about in length but he banned worker unions and prioritized employers over employees. History likes to treat him as if he was some kind of regular man’s hero but he wasn’t, he absolutely always sided with power and money.
What are you talking about?
None of the links you posted do anything to support your moronic claims. Try again dumbass.
Umm this isnt limited to white people. Don’t be racist.
It’s not limited to “facts“, either, so…
I don’t expect facts from people on Lemmy.
So, it shouldn’t expect the same from you? Fair, I guess.
Correct? Not sure what’s your point? Dopamine?
Well, kibblebits, I can’t speak for everyone. But I will tell you that I am absolutely open to real conversation. It is not beyond me to say, “OK, you’ve shown real proof of what you’re saying. I stand corrected”.
Racism against white people isn’t really a thing. It’d have to be an oppressed minority for it to be racism, else it’s just good old bigotry.
Edit: changed my mind! racism against white people is definitely a thing on an individual level, which I didn’t consider.
Systemic racism against white people is not a thing. Individual racism against white people is a thing. Claiming one of those doesn’t count as racism is arguing semantics and trying to change the meaning of language, which is impossible.
Hm, fair point. Individual racism can definitely be a thing, have not considered that. Thanks!
Voting ended slavery, the Civil War was fought by the assholes who followed the instructions in this thread.
Not everything needs to be solved with violence.
Holy shit, read a book, I beg you!!! Lincoln had no plans to abolish slavery until after the slaveowners threw a hissy fit and rebelled anyway because they were kinda just scared he would.
You’re finished Adolph…
Hitler was voted into power.
So he would never have been elected with enough counter votes.
That’s patently not true, he was actually appointed Chancellor by Hindenburg (a centrist who won because of “strategic voting” by the left) before actually winning any elections.
Hindenburg was hard-right, not a centrist by a long stretch.
Ok, fair enough. My point was that he was elected by left & center voting strategically to prevent hitler from rising to power. And yet he betrayed them and made hitler chancellor anyway.
Just a reminder that troll factories manipulate from both sides of the political spectrum: they try to play to disenfranchise effective opposition from the groups they know they won’t convince while they promote support for their own candidates from the groups they know they have their support.
Just because Lemmy is not mainstream does not mean it isn’t replete with special interests. In a way it makes it more vulnerable to certain types of it.
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