- cross-posted to:
- gaming@kbin.social
Looking at you, streamers and angry defenders of Japanese ‘fanservice’ games.
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I see we have reached the point where people are going to start saying “Okay, its time for everyone stop having fun” and writing about how the game isn’t that big of deal.
Point being: let’s not listen to the shrieking streamers and strange subsection of Japanese game defenders, and just calm down about some naked adult bodies standing around in a character creator, shall we? It’s time games got comfortable with the human form.
Let’s be frank: The real point is that the writer wants to feel superior to both of these demographics. Not that I support either, but this is just someone acting smug and superior and wanting a cookie for it. But I gotta say that the more blatant aspect is this ridiculous take that keeps popping up in modern criticism:
But there’s also plain old casual nudity—something that US cinema has historically shied away from (particularly with the male form), but that European cinema has been way more comfortable with for years. The whole gap between how the US and European ratings boards react to nudity is pretty well documented, and well summarised in this piece written at Quartz. Baldur’s Gate 3 is, of course, a European-made game, and we—yep, even us fusty old Brits—are historically a lot more relaxed about that kind of stuff.
Which is just absurd. I’m not North American, but let me tell you, if I see any plain dicks or pussy in a movie or TV series or game, it will be A Thing for me. I won’t just sit there and act like a robot thinking “That’s just a organic human body, much like mine, there’s nothing unusual about that”. There’s no homogenous understanding in Europe, or South America or in any other non-US country where full blown nudity is just a casual happening that anyone would not bat an eye at, adult or not.
Furthermore:
Streamers are “shocked” by the nudity? Well, that’s because they’re either a) sheltered people whose lives are largely based in their bedrooms and/or b) aware of the fact that looking aghast, being shocked, and squealing at the sight of a willy or tuft of pubes counts as entertainment. It’s a tale as old as PewDiePie: overreact on camera to things that happen in a game, and you’ll keep viewers, especially younger ones, engaged.
Whether it’s a performance or genuine shock, or a bit of both, video game streamers exist in a pretty particular bubble whose reactions aren’t exactly a gauge of society at large.
I won’t deny that streamers overact for views and content, but honestly? Fuck this guy. If I were playing by myself and saw a random cock dangling on my screen, I would have a reaction and feel flustered. If I were playing in front of hundreds, maybe thousands of strangers online? You can bet your ass that I would have a mini-anxiety attack. If the average streamer is a "sheltered people whose lives are largely based in their bedrooms " (again, fuck this writer) then that’s even more reason to not make light of a moment of panic. Having a hobby where you get to interact with people beyond your screen instead of face-to-face can be a mirror, but it also opens you to a lot of repercussions and a human, if overblown reaction like this being talked down is genuinely infuriating.
Frankly, this is just a plain asshole of a person, and the fact that every other writing of theirs on BG3 is “Its not that good, everyone” just solidifies my stance.
I won’t deny that streamers overact for views and content…
The reason why streamers freak out about bob’s and vagene is because Twitch has some pretty hardcore rules about what’s acceptable and what’s not. Nudity and sexual content are only allowed in unmodded games. Any nudity or sexual content is a bannable offense if the game has been modded or if the streamer brings too much attention to it. Streams that are rated “for mature audiences” don’t give streamers a free pass to in-game nudity, they just make the rules slightly more flexible.
Vinny Vinesauce got banned a few years ago for a few frames of Bladerunner 2049 titty because it was part of an overhaul mod that turned Serious Sam into a Bladerunner game. These were tit pics that were in the movie. Didn’t matter to twitch, he still got a temp ban. When a streamer stops the stream to delete the stream vod, that’s not “playing it up” or prudishness, that’s them trying to keep their ass in one piece.
Hell. I watch a number of furry streamers, some of whom openly joke about fetishes and kinks, and they freak out about nudity on stream.
That’s fair but the very first thing that happens when you start BG3 is a “do you want to see nudity?” checkbox
I was watching a streamer who had nudity off and bare breasts still flashed on stream while the game loaded in. So, she no longer switches the stream to show the game before loading a save for the first time that day. And she deleted the clip and the VOD to cover her own ass from Twitch. Not sure if the game was, or can be, fixed for this, but the checkbox isn’t the panacea most think it is.
Right. I was adding onto the statement the person I replied to was making. The original article talks about how streamers pretend to be all shocked and appalled by Japanese nudity but are unfazed by baldurs gate. My point is that streamers have to be serious about nudity because twitch can and will ban them for it.
If I were playing by myself and saw a random cock dangling on my screen, I would have a reaction and feel flustered.
You’re missing something big: it’s NOT a surprise. Literally the first thing that happens when you open the game for the first time is it asks you if you want to enable nudity. You have to answer that question before you even get to the main menu.
“Show Nudity” is still very vague. For any other videogame, it’d mean at best some nipples. The instance of full frontal in any media is extremely rare, hence the reactions are still justified. It would be a surprise, yes.
If you’re bothered by any kind of nudity, just say no when you’re asked if you want nudity. It’s really not complicated. It sounds like the only way to satisfy you is for the game to offer the exact amount of nudity you’re comfortable with and not a bit more.
I think you hit the nail on the head with how surprised someone might be when they are streaming to a large crowd. I can account for the 10 or so people that watch my buddy stream being adults because I have played with most of them. A big streamer can’t know their audience and if that provided their income surprise nudity could have a real impact
Tldr :
Japanese make game with sexual content.
Western journalists: “disgusting. This needs to be censored.”
Japanese gamers: “no”
Europeans make game with sexual content.
Japanese gamers: “hypocritical much?”
Western journalists: “OMG, stop making a big deal out of nudity in games. Isn’t it time we accept it?”
Japanese make game with sexual content that sexualizes minors. You left that part out.
I also left out the part where the western journalist says the bear bestiality scene “wasn’t that bad. It was pretty tame”
Yeah, that scene that the game cuts away from and doesn’t show you. Yup, that’s totes the same thing.
Name one Japanese game released in the west that had an explicit sex scene with a minor.
I mean, that’s sort of how it’s acceptable at all, right? It’s almost entirely about the fact that it’s like accepted to lust after them or hit on them and the rest that would actually get them busted is not explicitly shown, but there’s enough there for you to understand that it’s gross.
And I love Japanese games, but even still, currently I’m playing Apollo Justice Ace Attorney, and there are scenes where characters comment on the beauty and attractiveness of Trucy (with no reprimanding from any other character), a 15 year old girl explicitly mentioned to not even be in high school yet.
That’s not explicit, her character design isn’t sexy, but the behavior of much older men lusting after a pre-high schooler is totally normalized. I think that’s more of what you’ll see commonly.
Check age of consent in Japan please…
Not 13 any more. It’s officially 16 now, and that old age of 13 never applied to anyone because every prefecture had a prefectural age of consent set at 16, and the old, national age of consent WAS 13 so no prefecture could go below that. There was NO WHERE in Japan where it was actually legal to have sex with a 13 year old because no prefecture allowed it.
Get a new talking point.
And most of the world think that it’s too young.
Just because something is allowed by law in one country doesn’t invalidate arguments about it being immoral.
Having sex with animals is “allowed” (by not being illegal) in many countries. I would still argue that it is immoral.
16 country-wise and 18 in the prefecture I live in.
AoC is not the same as morally appropriate. I am willing to bet that most of Japan would not be ok with a 65 year old man pursuing a 15 year old.
Also prefectures have different ages of consent just like US states do so in much of Japan you really can’t have sex with a 13 year old even if that is the age of consent.
They edit it to age them up to be technically legal. C’mon, don’t play stupid.
Are you talking about visual novels?
I can read Japanese, so I can check the Japanese version and see what age they used there. Just one example is fine.
I know that there is lolicon in Japan, but this doesn’t get released in the west, nor is it intended for a western audience.
I’m talking about a game published with western audience in mind, that has a scene involving a minor that you consider to be worse than an implicit sex scene with a bear.
The games that tend to get criticism are games like the dead or alive xtreme volleyball series. Do you think those games deserve the criticism they get while bg3 doesn’t?
I also can speak and read Japanese because I’ve lived here for over 20 years. There are many games that aren’t visual novels that have had characters specially aged up for their western releases.
And stop moving the goalposts. The article was clearly talking about games that have been released in the west, originally intended to be or no.
Does it have to be released here? RapeLay had you rape a 12 year old.
You’ve posted that same link like 5 times now as a gotcha
Rapelay is just straight up porn and wasnt even intended to reach the west, and any western equivalent would get the same treatment because rape porn and lolicon altogether is illegal in the west. I don’t think anyone is upset about that game being banned or censored. It is not even being distributed in Japan anymore.
No it is a porn game that was designed by a Japanese company. There is a difference between westerners complaining about this and the nudity in BG3
Maybe Rapelay?
Was it a bear sex scene in that a player character has sex with a non sophont bear, or was it a bear sex scene where a player character has sex with a sophont druid in the shape of a bear. These are so incredibly different things that it needs to be stated before I can form an opinion.
It’s with a druid in bear form, and you have the option to ask him to switch back into his regular form.
Oh alright. So completely fine then, from the sounds of it. That being the case im realizing a lot of people don’t actually understand consent or why bestiality is bad.
They both involve made up characters in a made up world, so in my opinion they are the same.
Well if you want to manufacture outrage and put zero further thought into your philosophies and convictions that is certainly one of the first takes you might stumble across.
I mean, you’re complaining about bestiality in a game and then don’t care about consent? A strange take to be sure.
Oh you’re one of those people that think fictional characters deserve human rights.
Also, no, I am not complaining about bestiality in a game. That is not the point I’m trying to make.
Oh so you’re just here to argue not actually engage in anything productive. Got it.
Do fell free to explain what your point actually is. Or don’t, you’re clearly just a contrarian.
Did you not get the joke about having sex with a bear was pretty tame
Or you know the one that has you rape a 12 year old.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay
Hentai games are an entirely different level of fucked up.
Yes that game is fucked but that is one game out of millions and far from the norm. That’s just bad faith.
I am going to just leave this here. It’s a rough link just as a warning as it discusses a Japanese game where raping a 12 year old is part of the game.
Are people really mad about nudity, or are they just mad that it’s not all het nudity?
Edit: ok so after some research, looks like full nudity is an optional setting, and all body models (male or female) can have dicks or vulvas. Which makes me think there’s an anti trans component to complaints as well.
They’re mad that Japanese games get criticism for sexual themes, but not western ones. Examples being Dead or Alive and Street fighter characters where panties and bikinis are shown. No one is mad at the nudity itself of BG3.
Do these people get mad about the nudity in those games in general, or do they get mad about those games almost exclusively reserving that nudity for women? Because there is a difference. I haven’t played those games so I’m genuinely curious.
The type celebrating nudity in baldurs gate are usually prudes who argue for censorship, oppose nudity and sexual content, etc when it comes to Japanese games. Sane people are pointing out this obvious hypocrisy.
It’s not hypocrisy because a lot of that “censorship” is over things like characters that are underage or consent issues.
You really wanna talk about “censorship,” well, in Japan, in Cyperpunk 2077, the entire section that lets you pick your genitals is cut out of the console releases and you can’t get the dildo weapon because you’re not allowed to show genitalia on consoles because consoles are seen as being “for children.”
You can’t even show genetalia in porn in Japan.
Or in pretty much anything. I saw The Shape of Water in the theater when it came out, and there’s a sex scene in it. They literally blurred the few seconds of the man’s naked butt. It was very surreal.
For me, it’s definitely option 2. I really like the way Dark Souls handles it, where the armor sets looks the same on both genders, and everyone can be as tart or as modest as they like.
Maybe there’s a case to be made for a setting in BG3 that pixelates the naughty bits, but looking through youtube comments on BG3 romance scenes (for science!), most people seem to think the nudity is funny more than anything else. The few complaints about nudity really seem to be about the fact that they have to look at a dick/gay couple, which i don’t have too much sympathy for.
In Street Fighter at least, there’s at least as much male skin shown as female… more, really, due to the fact that males are allowed to go bare chested. From Ryu’s chest bush popping out of his gi, to Balrog wearing nothing but a pair of shorts, there’s no shortage of male skin in those games.
“Sexual themes” in those games seem to exist just for the gratification of the (het male) player, as evidenced by the people getting mad when a game desexualises its characters after release. I haven’t played baldurs Gate but as far as I can tell nudity in the game isn’t there just for the eyes of the player, it serves a purpose in-game and in-story. edit: and at times (like in the character creator) it’s not sexual at all
I imagine some are genuinely mad about the nudity, I imagine. Remember “video games are for children” and “if a child sees a nipple (let alone a penis!) the apocalypse will begin”. Just because gamers are gamers doesn’t mean they’re not still part of the larger culture.
It all reminds me of the controversy among older TES fans over the lack of nudity in TES3: Morrowind. There was a lot of European vs. American in those threads (and we had a genuinely cross-pond fandom back in those days). Arena and Daggerfall had nudity, and a few of our European posters expressed indignation over the change.
The cool things done with the nudity include:
- Karlach’s chest glowing from the Infernal Engine she uses as a heart
And that’s it. They’re not particularly good looking or anything. Other than Karlach, the nudity is quite generic and unsexy.
I feel like having full nudity is just a cheap gimmick that doesn’t add anything of value. The only mainstream game I’ve played that even uses nudity as a mechanic to do something special is Elden Ring and you’re not even totally nude in that game.
nudity is as much a mechanic as having head hair is though? it’s just what humans ( and humanoid) things are?
non sexual nudity is a normal part of life.
Oh, this comment section… Go on. Continue discussing…
Locking this thread as the discussion seems to be devolving.