- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English129•2 years ago
I don’t get it.
People wanted another Bethesda game.
They got what they wanted.
I said in 2008, after playing the first Fallout game by Bethesda instead of Black Isle: “Only Bethesda could manage to make a post apocalyptic prostitute boring.”
They’ve always been boring, they’ve always had ugly character models, and the writing has always been bad. You get what you paid for. A Bethesda game.
I think the fundamental problem is that people had different expectations for a game set in space, both because Bethesda stoked them (all of that talk of having the idea decades ago / first new franchise in however many years / Microsoft bought the company just to get it as an exclusive / etc) and because after No Man’s Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game’s problems and create something richer + more seamless.
In retrospect, if they’d simply sold it as “Skyrim in Space,” admitted to the limitations up front - same underlying engine, limited amount of variety to procedurally-generated content, loading screens instead of seamless takeoff/landing, etc - and not pretended that it was something new, the response would have probably been much more uniformly positive.
- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English15•2 years ago
I think you’re on the right track, but I think it’s also because recent games did better with similar ideas. People shat all over Mass Effect Andromeda, but it hid loading screens behind interplanetary and FTL travel that was actually visualized. In my brain, I know they’re cutscenes to cover for loading data, but it’s enough to take you out of it being a “game” and allowing you to suspend your disbelief. It’s hard to suspend disbelief when there’s a loading screen constantly in front of you.
Yeah, but you can do the same thing in Star Field, just takes a bit of learning. You get the exact same cut scenes for loading even, ala Mass Effect. The reality is the game offers fast travel, as essentially jumping 5 times and loading and seeing the cut scenes is the same thing as just loading to the end.
This game feels more like a test, do you actually want to explore, or do you want to hop point to point for the quest. You can do either. It just seems to offer fast travel as the first option, but you can take the slow way around too
after No Man’s Sky people kind of expected that with their budget / resources they would manage to fix that game’s problems and create something richer + more seamless
That was basically what I hoped for. NMS type game, but with Skyrim/ fallout level modding, stories, quests and deeper meaning to it.
And with better procgen. They have the manpower and expertise to do that.
I haven’t bought the game yet, waiting to see the initial responses. Now… I’ll probably pick it up on sale sometime, when bugs are fixed and there’s solid mods.
I mean, it is extremely polished. I have encountered a total of 2 bugs over my entire playtime. By this time in fallout 4 I lost track of the number of bugs I saw, things jittering atound, people’s faces acting wonky, nome of that here.
Honestly I still think waiting to buy a Bethesda game is smart if you aren’t a huge fan or something. Skyrim was pretty crap at launch and all the praise it gets now is mostly referring to Skyrim well after launch when patches and mods turned it into something good.
They’ve always been boring
Strongly disagreed. Pre-Oblivion their games were great. Hoping for a return to engrossing stories taking place in a rich, expansive universe was not entirely unreasonable.
- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English34•2 years ago
Morrowind was their best, but I would say 21 years on, it’s really tough to be like “Yeah, this time they’ll get back to their roots.” No, it’s time to move on. All the people who made those games what they were have retired, moved on, or died.
Well, I’d argue that Daggerfall was their best game, story-wise, but Daggerfall is even older. And that’s the point, isn’t it? More time passed between Skyrim and Starfield than between Daggerfall and Oblivion. A lot can change in so many years, and I do believe that hoping for something new was not entirely unreasonable.
Then again, the keyword there is entirely, isn’t it. I personally didn’t expect very much from Starfield, and, also personally, I can’t say I fully understand the amount of hype surrounding it.
Surely there’s an element there of rose tinted glasses? All of us were 21 years younger. There were less games coming out and they were harder to get for many of us.
You didn’t need to work so damn much to keep your head above water, or were below working age altogether. It was a lot easier to find the time to really immerse yourself in the lore and it required a lot of reading both in-game and out.
It was also all new to us, truly novel experiences with every leap in gameplay, graphics or mechanics being applied to brains that weren’t completely immune to dopamine and over-stimulated constantly.
I played Ultima VII so much that my friends and I would quote the game to eachother at school…we were fully immersed in it and it was bloody huge for its day.
To be honest I barely even try with these type of games anymore. I know it isn’t going to satisfy me. I tend to enjoy mastering movement mechanics and skill based competitive games. Sure, they also release the same game every year repackaged, but there’s usually enough of a tweak to movement mechanics and gun physics that it’s a challenge to get gud again and I get a real kick out of genuine competition.
I played Starfield for several hours on the weekend and I do my best not to judge too harshly given what I’ve said above but I feel as though there will never be a game ever again that grabs me enough to make that genre worth paying the money. It’s me that’s changed moreso than the lore being watered down. “Damn you, Avatar!”
I’d recommend you go back and read some critical reviews of Arena and Daggerfall. The complaints are exactly the same: the graphics engine is out of date, the characters are lifeless, the writing is just okay, the story is shallow, etc. Bethesda has scaled back the RPG mechanics since Morrowind, for sure, but their games ultimately have the same Bethesda DNA, for better or worse. For what it’s worth, I’m enjoying Starfield at launch much more than Fallout 4 even now, updated, expanded and modded.
My friend, I don’t need to go read the video game history about Daggerfall: I wrote some of it. :)
And I stand by my statement. That game was the height of storytelling that came out of Bethesda in a bunch of small but important ways, although Morrowind is not far behind, in a somewhat different fashion. And there is a definite shift in the series from the moment Ted Peterson left the team. Patently, not a shift I am personally very fond of, but to each her own.
I can’t remember all that well, I was a child at the time, lol. I go back to Morrowind once in a while, and I do find the writing to be more immersive, as opposed to the more recent games where it’s a series of linear, ham-fisted novellas. So far, Starfield seems much improved over Fallout 4 or Skyrim in that regard, but I’m not all that far in.
Not always, n’wah
- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English26•2 years ago
Skyrim is literally one of their worst-written games and only has a saving grace of a wide open world that is interesting to explore.
Personal opinion, Morrowind was still boring, but had the best writing, best style, and required the most from the player. Morrowind was peak Bethesda and that was over 20 years ago.
Starfield at launch is more compelling than Fallout 4 or Skyrim, but falls short of Morrowind. It’s in the mix somewhere alongside Oblivion and Fallout 3, IMO.
Why are people pretending the game isn’t getting glowing reviews? Is the Bethesda hate circlejerk still going on?
It didn’t come out on PS5.
I’m not surprised. I haven’t seen vids or played Starfield, but just judging by how Fallout 4 and Skyrim play, I was gonna expect the game to get old and boring really quick between the bland gameplay and milquetoast writing of those two games.
Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Morrowind were probably their last good games, with Morrowind being Bethesda at their absolute best imo.
I’m quite sure you’re in the minority judging Skyrim as boring.
I mean I’m gonna have to agree with the guy though. Skyrim was all but earth shattering… In 2011. Have you tried playing it recently? It feels old and repetitive. There is obviously still some fun to be had and some memorable bits but on the whole it’s just outdated plain and simple.
I think the vast majority of enjoyment people derive from it is nostalgia driven which I can totally respect, but that only lasts for like 4-5 hours once a year tops. I feel like a new player who never touched it in the golden years would likely get bored fast
No, I haven’t played it recently. I also don’t play Pacman anymore but it still is one of the cornerstones of computer games and a great game. Yes, Skyrim may be bland compared to modern RPGs but so are the others @Poggervania listed.
You say that, but you also have younger people who play Bethesda’s older games like Morrowind and Daggerfall to this day and are able to enjoy them in their own right.
It’s hard to put into words because another poster was right - there’s still some sort of draw to not just Skyrim, but their games in general. It might be nostalgia, it might be the atmosphere, no idea - but when you play the games, it’s just so… blah. Like it’s so close to being good, but they just miss the mark in some capacity.
Using Morrowind as an example because of how much I like the game, the environment, the atmosphere, and the writing are really well done - but god fucking dammit, I have to game the system in order to maximize my attributes on level up so I don’t die to RNGesus. As a mage, I don’t want to level up Long Blade or Heavy Armor - but I kind of have to because I need more carry weight from Strength and the HP gain from Endurance is not retroactive, so I have to get that to 100 as soon as I can so I don’t die to a sneeze. In Skyrim, they made leaps and bounds in the general combat - which is great, but holy fuck who gives a shit about the world when it effectively goes on pause for you and everybody is as wooden as the trees surrounding them? Fallout 4 is actually a really good gameplay loop and settlements are fun, but I’m not even playing a character - I can say “yes” in three different ways or “not right now” to pretty much every dialogue option and quest, and everybody is “quirky” in the way the cast of The Office is “quirky” it feels like. The writing really misses the mark 90% of the time.
I think it’s that, at least for me personally, is what makes them boring but still have that draw.
I’m not denying it’s impact on modern gaming, I’m just saying it’s old. Like it certainly deserves a spot in the gaming hall of fame but it doesn’t really stack up against more modern RPGs. Technology is moving forward and so should games, yet Bethesda is so stuck on Skyrim they have refused to innovate for a comically long time
yeah i never thought super mario bros was a good game, maybe in the 80s it was but its just boring and repetive today
Probably. I haven’t played any of the DLCs, but I just can’t get into Skyrim nowadays because I get quickly bored of it all. The only time I managed to complete all of the quests and the main quest was back at release, but now whenever I play it feels like a slog to go through a painfully bland world and setting. I usually give up after a few hours of playtime, and now I just haven’t played in years.
Meanwhile, I was around 30-40 hours into my latest Morrowind playthrough before BG3 dropped, and was putting a fair whack of time into Battlespire, so maybe I’m finally becoming old lol.
I’d say Starfield is in a lot of ways a return to form. So far, none of the actual quests I got from NPCs were as simple as “Go there and kill bandits”, like the majority of quests in Fallout 4. Those proc-gen quests have been relegated to Mission Boards for various factions (and there’s also more variety of them. Beyond killing, you have smuggling missions, cargo transport, passenger transport, surveying and some other stuff). Most of the quests I’ve done so far have also been very interesting, I’ve talked my way out of multiple confrontations/bossfight and I’ve robbed a valuable trophy and bank credentials from a luxury cruise ship with not a single shot fired, just using my cunning, persuasion and a little bit of blackmail and bribery. I keep thinking that I am going to get those “please kill those raiders” quests, like when I got a distress call from somebody having trouble with spacers (this games version of generic raiders or bandits), but instead I had to repair communication satellites and negotiate a mutual defense pact with the settlers of that system. Like, I’m 50+ hours in (yes, genuinely) and the game keeps surprising me with new and interesting content. I feel like I’ve barely scratched the surface of the content available.
Sure, you can’t completely fuck everything up and go murder everyone in the game like in BG3 or FNV or something, but it is actually a really solid RPG. The writing isn’t as deep, philosophical and politically charged as New Vegas, but it’s good. Way better than Fallout 4s main story (and better than Fallout 3s main story, which secretly sucks.) I actually had some interesting conversations in the game and chuckled quite a few times at some of the responses I could choose. My background and traits actually do come up in conversation, even had one of my traits help me win a persuasion minigame (which is actually quite interesting in this as well). Skills like Persuasion, Intimidation and Bribery actually matter and allow you to finish quests in different ways. I get a little bit angry everytime somebody calls it Fallout 4 in space, because unlike Fallout 4 Starfield is actually a roleplaying game, even if it doesn’t live up to the heights of Baldurs Gate 3. If you’re gonna call it anything in space, Oblivion would probably be the most apt comparison.
I somehow entirely missed the hype around this game and came across it again only accidentally on early release day when looking at some other sale on Steam. Been playing it and it seems fine to me in a vague Skyrim-in-space sort of way, which is all what I was expecting from a Bethesda RPG.
The world seems alive enough and there are plenty of side-quests and amusing / interesting things to discover. Now suddenly I have been coming across a bunch of posts everywhere where the game is supposed to be terrible or something. Still seems fine to me, but maybe I have lower standards after decades of gaming. shrug.
Its fallout 4 in space.
But with a worse interface and a lot more menus that are annoying to navigate.
Some mods have attempted to fix the menus.
I’d like to see some complete UI overhauls at some point, but right now I’m using a mod that increases the refresh rate to 120hz from 30 in the menu’s
Starfield is fun to me 🤷♂️
Stop complaining. Play it if you want, don’t if you don’t want to. People just like to be popular and liked. Everyone bandwagoned on Baldurs Gate being good but I can’t think of a type of game I hate more than that. Now everyone is bandwagoning on this because A- they don’t have an Xbox or a PC, or B- they want to be cool and alternative.
I mean come on, last week everyone was saying “omg Baldurs Gate has no microtransactions! Roleplaying! GOTY!” And now with Xbox/Bethesda making a game just like that, you guys instantly roast it for being…a Bethesda game.
I cannot stand turn based combat and generally avoid RPG’s these days and even I think this is a ridiculous take.
I don’t own BG3 but I’ve played at a friend’s place and that game is about a thousand levels deeper than Starfield. If you like RPG’s and mucking around with dice whilst you play computer games, BG3 is a god damn masterpiece.
Well if you want to get nitpicky there’s no “roleplaying” in a Bethesda games because there are no bad outcomes. Minor spoilers about BG3.
For instance in BG3 I went into a camp swords blazing and murdered everything in sight. Turns out I killed a recruitable companion along the way that I never would’ve found out if I hadn’t read about it online. Technically speaking that’s an undesirable outcome because I’m going to miss out on some content but at that moment I didn’t give a fuck and similarly the game just went along with it. At no point did the game even hint that maybe I shouldn’t kill that character, if anything the game told me the objective is to kill that character. Had it been a Bethesda game I 100% would’ve been prevented from just murdering that companion and the game had given me a chance to recruit them.
Similarly I reloaded one hard fight 4 times to save a character who was relatively important to the story. That bitch just kept on running into AOE effects and getting herself killed. BG3 didn’t give a fuck if that character lived or died because the story would’ve continued without her. We all know how Bethesda handles characters that are important to the story, they literally cannot die.
And finally I’m currently at a point where the game gave me 2 choices, either I send one of my companions into eternal servitude or another character important to the story dies. Maybe there’s a third option that lets me save both but I might’ve missed it. If this was a Bethesda game there wouldn’t even be such a situation because it doesn’t matter what you choose, either option has a bad outcome.
And those are just examples from my current playthrough. From what I’ve seen others play you might not even get to those decisions, which means some decisions will lock out other decisions down the line and that’s once again something Bethesda does less and less with each game
Baldurs gate 3 gets praise because it’s a great game, Starfield gets shit because underneath it’s just Skyrim in space. Are we supposed to give praise for a game that follows a decade old design philosophy? If Doom 93 came out today should we lose our collective minds? No, because the industry has moved forward. Our expectations should be higher than Skyrim. There are good things about Starfield. The moment to moment combat seems excellent and Bethesda clearly has improved the visuals compared to FO4 and FO76. But the rest of the game seems it could’ve just as well been released back in 2011.
And before you think I’m some hyped up tweeb who is now disappointed that Starfield didn’t live up to the hype, I haven’t been hyped about a Bethesda game since Fallout 3. I’m well aware how easily Bethesda springs up hype and how the final product doesn’t really match the hype they promote. I had pretty basic expectations of what Starfield might be and I feel like Starfield was pretty much in the ballpark to the expectations I had: good shooting, lots and lots of loading screens and menus and very little of actual “space”. That’s to say I didn’t have high expectations in the first place.
All that gameplay you described? Is ancient. The industry has moved on as you say. You clicked through menus and virtually rolled dice to do that. That’s so old, it predates video games themselves.
At least Starfield is more modern than turn based gameplay.
That would explain why out of all of Skyrim i only remember the fact that you could kill the girl that invites you to dark brotherhood amd subsequently destroy it.
I think the microtransactions praise was more are, non predatory marketing / extracting every last cent praise. Didn’t Stanfield have a premium cost to pay a week earlier or something? Is that not a similar concept, albeit nowhere near as shit as microtransactions.
Are we not all tired of being wrung out for our cash? What’s so wrong with just charging what you need so that you can make a game.
Am I the only one who noticed the gun animations are just the fallout 4 ones? Like the pistols use exactly the same animations. I know because I played hundreds of hours of 4.
I like the game
I doubt that OP has played starfield
Cmon guys stop being mean to Todd
- Hot Saucerman ( @dingus@lemmy.ml ) English9•2 years ago
I didn’t play starfield but watched around 2 hours of gameplay. The story was kinda nonsense, the gameplay I can respect but I know it wouldn’t be for me. Like everyone says it’s fallout in space, but it seems like it takes itself much more serious
Had me in the first 2/3, ngl
That’s how these jokes work. Gj
Kinda reminded me of Hogwarts Legacy, except it was a great game.
I’ve got about 15 hours in it. So far so good. Not 10/10 GOTY material no, but good. Probably about a 7 maybe 8/10
Ha you got me with that last panel