So I had a situation at work where the project lead refused to communicate with me, and instead went to my boss about everything. I thought it was me, but my (male) boss suggested it might be misogyny. (My work is male dominated. I’m the only female lead of my role in the company.)
I occasionally run into situations where someone, man or woman, not only dislikes me but does everything they can to destroy me. I figure I’m just offputting, but I’ve had unrelated comments from others that it is because I’m direct and opinionated, and not afraid to defend my opinion.
I’m having a hard time mentally processing the opposing concepts that I’m a bad person, and that is why I make this kind of enemy, and that there’s nothing wrong with me, it’s their problem.
For the record, I have all kinds of self- deprecating behaviors to try to soften my opinions, and they generally work. Just sometimes, there is no way for me to have a perspective and not be offensive to someone.
I’d welcome your experiences and thoughts, if any.
I have felt how you felt. Things actually, with some misogynists, have gotten worse recently in my experience. What that means now there is no uncomfortable peace with these people, now they either require me completely folding or holding my chin to get (metaphorically) punched. I have chosen the later, my pride won’t let me be walked over as much anymore. For good and bad.
I have learned to not try and placate. If I am doing that, why stand and have opinions at all? If I just let them talk me into a position that actually isn’t my position or softening my position, was I really standing at all?
I also have started trying to be actually gruffer. More in charge and direct the situation. A lot of people don’t know how to handle the confidence. For the misogynists against me? I have cut them off (boundaries for acquaintances who are jackoffs) and made sure to cya (cover my ass) like get email or text or something with their lack of engaging, then I have “they let petty opinions get between being professional” which usually businesses/HR will accept and put them in the wrong if all they did before was be disagreeable.
But really, try to drop the self-deprecation if you can. We pick it up to be cute as teens, but it really makes us fail in the workforce and it actually can get really old to be around for everyone. If anything, it makes them think they’re right about you (whatever the weird opinion is). If you are a thoughtful person and you have formed your opinions with care, why should you back down at all? Heck, who are they to step to you? Why do THEY have the right to be jackasses just cause they don’t like someone? You’re the adult trying to do your job. They are being unprofessional!
It sucks your boss let that person undermine you. If you can, I would personally ask my boss to direct everything to me, and make the person either act out and get reprimanded or they get on board.
I wish you luck. I don’t get along with as many people anymore, sometimes it sucks, but those who rise above the rest are more worth it.
now there is no uncomfortable peace with these people
So true! I have a lot of anxiety about keeping my job. I was laid off twice in one year (first for not folding on my desired career path, second for a company acquisition) shortly after having my second baby and going through a divorce from an abuser, so I don’t deal well with work conflict any more. I’m the only earner in the house, and I’m not sure I’m mentally well enough to handle another “layoff.” So I’m in the folding mode, but it’s hurting my already fragile mental health.
The self-deprecating tools are things like helping someone else come up with my idea so it doesn’t come from me, making it clear that I’m just advising, asking leading questions, small talk, etc. I know they aren’t great, but it’s hard to let go of things that have protected you. I’m way too blunt for my own good, naturally. I’m looking into the possibility that I am autistic, after that possibility was raised.
Yeah, I’m autistic too. Self-deprecating tools helped kids who felt intimidated by you on the school ground back off. Professionally? Eh. How much trust would you have in someone who always tell you how much they don’t trust themselves? Think about when you encounter it in the wild and how off putting it can be.
Sometimes it reads as “are they fishing for validation?” too. you always gotta be careful of that!
I’ve had unrelated comments from others that it is because I’m direct and opinionated, and not afraid to defend my opinion.
This is a part of it, but people who are misogynistic will just be misogynistic. They have problems with your existence, and no amount of sugar coating or changing your wording will subvert this.
The most tangible advice I can give to you right now is the following - your boss is clearly an ally. He not only recognized the bad behavior, but was willing to let you know about it. This is frankly rather rare, and you need to find individuals like this and pay attention to them. Come to them for advice, because they are the insiders who know how to work the system, are listened to by the system, and will be willing to work the system to balance out the forces which are currently acting against you.
I have all kinds of self- deprecating behaviors
Don’t use these in the work place. Challenging your own credibility in public where these people can see it will result in them using this as ammunition when arguing as to why they don’t like your opinions, thoughts, suggestions, etc. You need to be direct, come off as competent, and know when to disengage. That way if any outsiders get pulled into the situation, your actions can speak for themselves.
On another note I would suggest looking around for female leaders at your company or people which you can count on who are higher up than you. Become their friends and ask them for advice. They’ve likely got a better lay of the land politically than you do because of their position, and they’ll know where the problematic individuals are or how to get around them in a way that won’t come back to bite you.
If there are employee resource groups or professional women’s groups of any sort at your company or even in the field that you work in, go sign up and look to them for mentoring and advice as well. These resources can be extremely beneficial in the long term and can help you learn more strategies to deal with discrimination in the workplace.
Finally, be wary of HR - they care about your company’s health more than anything and if you come to them with sexism their job is to protect the company from you being able to sue them over this before it is their job to help you with navigating this issue of interpersonal relationships. Often times many people who work in HR are female, but that does not mean that they will protect you if push comes to shove. In some companies they may, but there’s a conflict of interest with people who roll up into HR so in general you should always be wary of coming to them with anything.
I would suggest looking around for female leaders at your company
Thank you. My friend and boss’s boss was the only female leader in my part of the company, and she recently passed away from cancer. It’s been hard missing my mentor on top of dealing with this.
I really appreciate the rest of your advice. I don’t think my softening behaviors sabotage me, in fact it’s when I forget them to focus on the problem that I get in trouble. But maybe I should think more about that.
Thank you. My friend and boss’s boss was the only female leader in my part of the company, and she recently passed away from cancer. It’s been hard missing my mentor on top of dealing with this.
Oh gosh, I’m so sorry. That sounds really rough. I’d feel super lost too if someone so important was no longer around.
I really appreciate the rest of your advice. I don’t think my softening behaviors sabotage me, in fact it’s when I forget them to focus on the problem that I get in trouble. But maybe I should think more about that.
It’s a difficult line to walk. To these people if you’re too direct you become the ‘bossy bitch’. Too soft and they push you over. Learning to soften language in ways which don’t water down the message but make it less attackable - ‘I think that we should’ vs. ‘we should’ is essentially the same message, but the ‘I think’ preface makes it softer and less opportune to attack (it’s just your opinion, rather than a statement of fact, even if both statements are functionally the same).
To be clear, I’m obviously not you and I’m not around for your discussions nor do I really know what you mean when you say ‘self-deprecating’, but I just want to make sure you’re aware that these kinds of people will absolutely use some self-deprecating behavior against you. If you joke that you’re incompetent, they will use it to claim that you are, in fact, incompetent. Anyhow, you’re smart and hopefully you can can sift through the advice I’m trying to leave here to find the most useful information for what you’re going through.
Yes, the “I think” is exactly the type of thing I meant about self- deprecating behaviors. I am not good at naturally soft language, but it’s exhausting to be constantly trying to monitor that.
Thank you so much for being a sounding board.