What we are witnessing in France these days makes me wonder whether an entire political and social model is on a crisis and is rapidly approaching its end. A western “advanced” and progressist country, always pointed at as an example of successful society, is at the verge of collapse due to internal instability and riots (and has been for the last months/years in a similar situation). Worker class rights, maternity leaves and reduces working hours, minimum wages, national healthcare and education, tolerance, minority inclusion, democracy itself in its principles of fair and equal representation seem to be at risk and simply “not sustainable any more”. Is anyone having the same feelings?

  • I live in France. This kind of riots has been around for decades, sometimes because a cop murdered a kid in a poor neighborhood, sometimes because it’s new year’s eve (true story). What happened the last few days is not the sign of a system on the brink of collapse.

    It’s the result of our colonial era, of a urban policy that creates ghettos, of ordinary racism (particularly in the police) and above all of a policing policy that has become increasingly brutal since the 2000s.

    Concurrently, Macron is an authoritarian oligarch in the era of late stage capitalism. But the current riots are not related to the health care system or the worker’s rights.

  •  bbbhltz   ( @bbbhltz@beehaw.org ) 
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    101 year ago

    I live in France. The moment I read the news it was inevitable that riots would be on the way. The reaction from both sides was predictable.

    It is important to note that many of those rioting, by their own admission, we’re not rioting because of the death of Nahel or because they hate the police. They admit they were out causing trouble for just that reason: to cause trouble. Social media is playing a huge role this time around.

    France is not really on the verge of collapse. Some of the businesses that were destroyed have already been reimbursed by insurance. About 70% of French people still trust the police. Employment laws are quite good.

    But, you are right about many things.

    Education needs work. France is falling behind and there is a teacher shortage: a huge teacher shortage. They are letting people with no training come in and teach. Also, not every school is the same. I am a teacher myself, and for a short time I taught in a middle school and it was a fucking joke. The teachers there were the biggest clichés of what people dislike about teachers. It made me sick. Good neighbourhoods get better schools and teachers. It shouldn’t be like that. Also, there are a good number of private schools. The system is not the same for some of these people. Their futures are determined by geography and parental income.

    Minority Inclusion is hindered by both sides. Those minorities usually end up in areas that make it difficult to assimilate French culture and experience cultural diversity. They have the advantages of French society but at the same time resent it. French people aren’t getting the diversity either. So, inevitably there is racism and prejudice. It was the first thing I noticed when I moved to France: casual racism.

    Is anyone having the same feelings?

    Not quite, but partially. I think social media has a stronger influence that we want to admit and we need to do something about it before we can fix anything.

  • I’m an American, so feel free to correct me if I’m wrong:

    I don’t think France is anywhere near a collapse. There’s property damage and maybe even some violence, but this is not going to completely dismantle France. There might be some policy changes or resignations, but that’s about it.

    I don’t think that this is building to anything worse, either.

  • I don’t think riots in France are evidence of societal collapse or some other broader western malady. They’re not new or confined to the last few decades.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France

    I don’t know if this is just a side effect of France’s particular history or culture, but its people are willing to hit the streets and hard over rights violations and government decisions they disagree with.

    This is often presented as particularly shocking to British or American sensibilities because we’d often just passively accept things the French will set fire to some parked cars over. Contrast and compare pension reforms in France and the UK.

  • You’re right in pointing out that riots are symptomatic of the underlying class struggle in response to capitalist crisis. However, it does not mean that anything is “on the verge of collapse”. On the contrary it might point to the resilience of the capitalist system. Capitalism has a tendency to create crises and resolve them, but only temporarily, prolonging its existence.

    Regarding the specific social benefits mentioned (workers’ rights, maternity leave, reduced working hours, minimum wage, healthcare, education, and tolerance), these are concessions by the bourgeoisie to pacify the working class and maintain the capitalist system. While such measures might temporarily alleviate some of the suffering within capitalism, they could not resolve the fundamental contradictions of capitalism.

    These un-guided struggles will not, on their own, lead to any fundamental change. They might be opportunities for the working class to organize, but nothing is “inevitable” about the downfall of capitalism. Only an organized, principled international communist party committed to the overthrow of capitalism can guide the working class towards a revolutionary transformation of society.

    Many are under the impression that they are going to be able to wait around for capitalism to collapse “on its own”. They think the more the working class is beaten up and kicked around, the closer it is to this “verge”. These people could not be more mistaken. Capitalism can go on forever, or until it ends the human race. There’s nothing fatalistic about its collapse and replacement with something better.