More context:
Reading about it I am not completly convinced that he is innocent, but I think that there is 100% plausible reason to doubt that he is guilty. This should defintly be enough to stop an execution.
Edit: Maybe read the whole statement before getting a rage fit? I said he shouldn’t have been killed. I am also not moderate and (according to US standards) I am apparently not white as a muslim turkish person.
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Maybe you should have read my whole statement before writing this wall of text?
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I am just arguing about his case within the local law. Not about the sanity of the local within moral boundaries. So we two are having two different arguments here.
they’re agreeing with you and taking it further, i’m pretty sure
Yeah, the chance that he is innocent is almost zero. However, the guy is also undeniably a psychopath.
Call me radical, but I don’t think any government should be killing people.
There are a lot of governments in the world that agree with you. Not the US government, not at all.
End all wars with this one simple trick.
This kind of thing makes me go into denial. I hate my country, but this absolutely cannot be real. It’s horrible clickbait, or propaganda supporting my existing beliefs about how inhumane it is here.
I struggle to imagine someone administering a needle for an innocent man to die, rather than quitting on the spot. I struggle to imagine someone certifying paperwork to appove this to happen. But I am entirely incapable of imagining the number of human cogs that would need to be similarly compliant for this to be followed through to completion. I am not interested in trying to imagine. This story is fiction because admitting otherwise will break what’s left of my sanity.
You can show me horrors and get me to admit and speak of them as reality, but you can’t get me to believe them.
A stunning number of people in the links of that chain could’ve stopped it, and none of them cared to risk their employment over it.
I’ve seen it said that if you live in the US, you can ask yourself a question: “If you lived in Nazi Germany, what would you have done to oppose that state?”
The answer: You’re doing it right now. Nazi Germany’s leaders explicitly stated that its model of colonialism and expansionism in eastern europe, eugenics practices, and its racial state, were all based on the US model, which nearly successfully carried out everything Nazi Germany failed to do: eviction and genocide of its indigenous inhabitants, stealing a continent, and erecting a white-supremacist state on top of it.
The Innocence project is real and they do incredible work. They rarely take cases that don’t have new DNA evidence due to the difficulty in overturning a conviction. They could probably use your financial support.
–The site which we don’t speak of had a mainstream news article to this story monday night explaining that the state was already refusing to grant a stay of execution even with prosecuting attornies new doubts.
This is not justice
The US government is horrible to people living within it and outside of it
He wasn’t executed by federal order, it was a state AG being a total murder-hungry dick head. Calling it “the US regime” is some tankie bullshit
So the Missouri regime.
Remind me of a one-off line from a kids show, involving Tom Sawyer; “I ain’t going back, it’s Missouri in there!”
Missouri speaks for the entire US now?
The US can be judged by the actions of any single state. It’s all the same country 🙄
Like a book can be judged by its cover cause its all the same book?
Like a book can be judged by one of it’s 50 chapters.
You haven’t read much because that is an extremely stupid analogy.
Do you need someone to explain how stupid this is, or have you calmed down since you reacted?
SCOTUS does
Actually SCOTUS speaks for Trump since he was the POS that installed them.
The people are responsible for who they elect and the actions they take. So millions of people in the US are to blame for this even if they aren’t a majority thanks to how elections work in the US since Clinton won the popular vote.
Clinton was well over 30 years ago. Please join us in the present.
I was talking about 2016.
Still, almost 10 years ago.
SCOTUS appointments are for life. The 70 million or so who voted for him will be responsible even after their death of many of them.
Missouri isn’t so different from everywhere else
Where are you from?
I’ve spent a lifetime traveling the united states. i originate from Appalachia. bad and racist judgements come all across the country. any state with the death penalty on the books will eventually do this, and any state that doesn’t have the death penalty on the books has around 30% of people minimum who think it should be. you’re deluding yourself if you don’t think everywhere is like everywhere else just with different ratios of who is around
This would also mean California is like Alabama which is like New York which going even farther because borders are man-made, exactly like London which is exactly like Israel, Gaza, Yemen…see how your argument is stupid or do I need to go on?
no actually. i don’t see how my view that people are all people and the things we do is all in response to the context we grow up in is stupid. so please keep listing places that we have both the potential to improve or to degrade into depending on what actions we take and if we can learn to empathize
ok so technically, this wouldn’t be the US regime, this wouldn’t even be a regime at all judging by modern contemporary definitions.
The dude was executed under state law. In the united states.
Can we stop referring to the US like this? I get that we have problems but jesus christ it feels loaded calling us a “regime” we’re not all that oppressive, and we’re not all that anti-democratic. Calling it a regime probably makes it more of a regime than it is by itself.
we could’ve had a productive discussion on the problems with capital punishment, but nope. here we are, not even talking about it at all (aside from the comment threads)
not all that oppressive
not all that anti-democratic
under a post about an innocent person being executed despite mountains of exonerative evidence
you are not a serious person
not all that oppressive
so far the worst thing that’s happened is an abortion ban, which is highly unpopular. As far as oppression goes, that’s pretty good, not great obviously, but it’s not killing people for protesting levels of oppression either so.
not all that anti-democratic
we literally live in a country with a democratic republic system, and multiple levels of government with independence. The worst thing to happen in the last 10 years was trump trying to over throw democracy, which i will remind you, didn’t work. Some people might point to kamala harris being on the ticket but that’s stupid, you can’t expect a primary party vote this close to locking in politicians, kamala was also the VP of the previous admin, so it’s not that different, and she also has her name on the super PAC funding as well. There just aren’t many options there. And even then, that doesn’t prevent you from voting, somehow. You can still vote for kill stein if you like supporting russian agents i guess. Or trump, if you hate democracy i guess. Or just some other dude.
under a post about an innocent person being executed despite mountains of exonerative evidence
i was complaining about the title and the wording of the title?
so far the worst thing that’s happened is an abortion ban
lol. we torture minorities in our prisons for being impoverished and refuse to prioritize the value of water over the value of oil executive profits. torturing women for daring to try to be equals is single head on our hydra of exploitative torture. it was 160 years since emancipation last year. there are people alive still who had peopl in their life who were owned.
The worst thing to happen in the last 10 years was trump trying to over throw democracy
the worst thing about the last ten years that incetivizes people to rupture the system for profit rather than to address the potential for someone to do that because the people holding power would rather rely on precedent than lose a single iota of power
lol.
i too laugh about torturing people, it’s very funny.
we torture minorities in our prisons for being impoverished
i don’t know anything about this, any sources for reading?
and refuse to prioritize the value of water over the value of oil executive profits.
i’m not sure what these have to do with each other, this is true for most countries. If you’re trying to say that we prioritize profits over secure access to water, i guess that might be true, but one of those is a problem, and another one of those is an economic goal. Those aren’t related. Compared to a lot of countries, the US has really good access to clean potable water.
torturing women for daring to try to be equals is single head on our hydra of exploitative torture.
what does this even mean, this isn’t english. This is a poor bastardization of english.
it was 160 years since emancipation last year. there are people alive still who had people in their life who were owned.
yeah and it’s like 70 years since stalin ruled over the USSR. Cool story bro, should i bring in the nazis also? That was only 80 years ago. Perhaps we should consider maos china, about the same time period 70 or so years ago.
the worst thing about the last ten years that incetivizes people to rupture the system for profit rather than to address the potential for someone to do that because the people holding power would rather rely on precedent than lose a single iota of power
you unironically think abuse of capital is a worse problem than stripping the rights of a countries own people?
deeply, deeply unserious
brother your name is “fidel cashflow”
i don’t want to hear it from you lmao.
i would prefer to never hear from you again either :)
you never had to respond to me lmao
this wouldn’t even be a regime at all judging by modern contemporary definitions.
I’d like to see the definition you’re talking about. The dictionary definitions definitely fit. Sometimes the definition doesn’t even have negative connotations. You’re just offended because someone used a word reserved for enemies of the US to describe the US.
ok so technically, regime is just a sort of generic term more often than not used to talk about a “government leadership” for ex. “stalins regime” or a “dictators regime” beyond that it’s use is usually specifically with reference to how the government operates.
An “anti rights regime” for ex. The problem that i have, is that not only does this, just not really apply, because we’re talking about a specific state, exercising independent rights over capital punishment, arguably illegally and immorally, considering the evidence we have doesn’t demonstrate him to be the murderer in this case.
The title frames it as if the “US” “regime” whatever that means, idk if it’s implying the president, the federal government, or the federal government and the state government, or that specific state government, there are so many levels of government in the US it’s really not appropriate to call it a “regime” you could call the trump admin or biden admin specifically a regime i guess. Though i’m not really sure what the point of that would be.
The title reads as if the “US government” (an entity, which is not an appropriate description) solely and single handedly murdered a guy who was not actually a criminal (which to be fair, did happen) and then it says “another” like it happens extremely regularly or something. Which while it happens more often than not, there aren’t that many to begin with? There have only been 18 so far as of this year. Even in the last like 50 years, only 200 people have been “exonerated” for their crimes. (only about 1600 people executed in that time as well) Most of those have been black, a majority even, the next highest is white and Hispanic, which make sense. So that seems to follow the populous of the jails at least from what i would expect. It looks like there have been about 20 “very likely innocent” people that have been executed in the same period.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/ most of my info has been from here and memory, don’t take it as gospel.
Like with all due respect, i just think this is an incredibly irresponsible and flagrant way to phrase the title specifically. Data doesn’t support it, the sheer numbers don’t support it either. Like the actual number is 0.000004% percent of the US population have been sentenced to death, and executed in the US since 1976. The VAST majority of that coming from the south.
Again, i don’t support capital punishment, i think it should be illegal, although i think if we’re going to keep it legal we should make them public, that way people actually have to deal with the consequences of the law. But It’s so miniscule to other problems like healthcare access, and obesity, that i really don’t think it warrants the title that implies the government is literally executing people on a whim as it pleases with no regard for anything at all.
TL;DR the title is extremely generous and i think rather inflammatory for something that simply doesn’t warrant it given the stats and figures, as well as the political structure of the government, and the clear public sentiment on the problem at hand.
just think this is an incredibly irresponsible and flagrant way to phrase the title specifically. Data doesn’t support it, the sheer numbers don’t support it either. Like the actual number is 0.000004% percent of the US population have been sentenced to death, and executed in the US since 1976.
You’ve completely lost the plot, mate. Nobody is saying that a significant percent of the population is being executed.
How many people have been executed on Putin’s orders? A hundred? So that’s only like 0.00007% of the Russian population. no big deal then.
The VAST majority of that coming from the south.
because we’re talking about a specific state, exercising independent rights over capital punishment,
Independent rights granted by the supreme court. AKA the federal government. The 9 robed, tenured individuals are part of the regime. You’re just uncritically accepting the federalist society’s position here.
Did you know there was once a moratorium on all executions in the US? But you seem to think of it as a natural law that Missouri has the right to execute whoever they please.
The title reads as if the “US government” (an entity, which is not an appropriate description) solely and single handedly murdered a guy
You’re inferring way too much here. Nobody said or implied that the US federal government was solely responsible for this execution. When a headline reads that the Russian regime assassinated a political dissident, do you take the time to point out the federated nature of the Russian government? Would it matter that the evidence points more to an official act of the Dagestan government instead of a direct order from the Kremlin?
Obviously this isn’t a perfect analogy. But the “US government” (the entity, which is an appropriate description) has given the greenlight for these executions. The supreme court has approved these punishments, and the executive and legislative branches have done nothing to prevent it.
You’ve completely lost the plot, mate. Nobody is saying that a significant percent of the population is being executed.
that’s weird, because the title seems to imply otherwise. I would think it would be worded differently otherwise.
How many people have been executed on Putin’s orders? A hundred? So that’s only like 0.00007% of the Russian population. no big deal then.
probably hundreds. And since we should make this roughly equivalent we should probably consider more broad deaths, picking an extremely broad one like, russian soldiers that have died that number is roughly 300,000 Which if you do the math for, is about 0.02% people killed under the orders of putin specifically.
Putin has also been around for a long time, prior to this he was a KGB member, so he probably has a handful of executions tied to his name there as well. The number is bound to be quite a few.
I wonder why.
that’s a possible influence, but the south is also more republican/conservative than the north, and conservatives tend to like capital punishment a lot more than the democrats. That may in it of itself be due to racism, or subconscious/subtle racism, but that’s a different story. Things are more often than not, very gray. Rather than black and white.
Independent rights granted by the supreme court. AKA the federal government. The 9 robed, tenured individuals are part of the regime. You’re just uncritically accepting the federalist society’s position here.
how else would a state have independent rights??? Illegally??? Yeah no shit it’s imbued upon the state by the federal government, that’s the whole fucking basis of the US government structure. It wasn’t created by god, it was created by the founders.
yes i’m uncritically accepting it, that’s literally how the government works, do you want me to pretend that reality isn’t real? “hmm yes i think the government does not work the way it has been stated to work”
Did you know there was once a moratorium on all executions in the US? But you seem to think of it as a natural law that Missouri has the right to execute whoever they please.
“Although the justices did not rule that the death penalty was unconstitutional, the Furman decision invalidated the death sentences of nearly 700 people. The decision mandated a degree of consistency in the application of the death penalty.” Technically not a moratorium, but in essence was one as states had to rewrite laws to be consistent with this ruling, which they did.
Since you don’t seem to understand how the US government works, will provide an explanation here. The federal government is the ultimate authority on things, if it rules on something, it’s the law that sticks. However this also requires enforcement (as seen with weed) if the federal government doesn’t rule on something in it’s entirety, the remaining discretion is left up to the states who only have to comply with what is explicitly stated in the federal law.
for example if the federal government said that you can’t “execute people without reason” every state that were to execute someone, would have to provide a reason, unless they want to break the law. But if they have a reason, it will comply, whether that reason or not is left up to the courts, and eventually the supreme court if it gets elevated that high, however generally the law is well written enough that this does not regularly happen, as well as states deliberating on it themselves and complying as they understand to be legal.
You’re inferring way too much here. Nobody said or implied that the US federal government was solely responsible for this execution.
i probably am, but in my defense, that title is shit and should’ve been written much better. For example something like “A US state has ruled to execute an innocent man” would’ve been fine. Unfortunately that’s not what it says, and it’s not very specific.
When a headline reads that the Russian regime assassinated a political dissident, do you take the time to point out the federated nature of the Russian government?
Generally not, but generally when russia shoots down a plane with anti air missiles, it’s probably not a federated authority engaging in that. A federated authority may execute someone, but that’s unlikely to make world news. It’s also worth noting that the governmental structure of russia, is different from the US, and is abused quite a bit more. So it’s not a super accurate comparison either.
Would it matter that the evidence points more to an official act of the Dagestan government instead of a direct order from the Kremlin?
if the implication is that the kremlin would’ve done it, when the kremlin didn’t do it, then yes that would matter, because that would be factually inaccurate.
Obviously this isn’t a perfect analogy. But the “US government” (the entity, which is an appropriate description) has given the greenlight for these executions. The supreme court has approved these punishments, and the executive and legislative branches have done nothing to prevent it.
the US government hasn’t to my knowledge given the authority for that specific execution though. The US government has given authority for capital punishment sure. But then we should be talking about that. To my knowledge, the federal government doesn’t oversee every single execution case that ever happens within the US, they might have overseen this specific one, but i don’t know much about it. And even if it did go to the federal supreme court, that would’ve likely been over a specific issue, as with the last objection they tried to make in his favor, arguing that they should’ve forgone the execution because it was done incorrectly, rather than absolving him of his guilt, as they claimed didn’t happen prior to executing him.
Even in this case i still think it would be inaccurate to say that the federal US government had “greenlit” this execution, when it merely ruled on one specific technicality in a many many years long legal battle surrounding the legality of this case. If you wanted to argue that the Missouri government is corrupt and “regime” like i think that would be a lot more accurate in this case.
Here to expand upon why i think this is an inaccurate telling. Let’s say someone asks you for a knife, to open a box or something. You give them a knife, and then you forget that they have it, and by the time you remember, they’ve used that knife to stab someone else. Are you now legally responsible for that stabbing? The answer is no.
Perhaps you might be if they literally told you “give me that knife, i’m going to stab someone with it” but even then it wouldn’t be guaranteed. You would essentially have to be an accomplice to the stabbing in order to be charged.
It’s not a productive discussion that’s needed though. The death penalty has been going on for four centuries in the US. That’s an awful lot of time for an awful lot of productive discussions, and yet innocent people are still being put to death by the machinery of the state. At this point we’re just tired of it.
For the innocent victims of the death penalty, I imagine it feels like a regime. Like an inscrutable, bureaucratic behemoth, unable to change course even in the face of logic. It’s inhumane, it’s unreasonable. It’s a regime - an immovable set of arbitrary rules where no single individual has to take responsibility, and no individual human being’s decision can save you, even if you’re innocent. It’s a regime.well yeah the productive discussion is “stop doing the death penalty, it’s stupid”
For the innocent victims of the death penalty, I imagine it feels like a regime.
well i mean yeah, that would be the second definition of regime, even doing shit like renewing your license feels like dealing with a regime. Dealing with any government is technically “regime” like if you think about it for long enough.
It’s U.S. election time and we have a few more months of their inflammatory “news” opinion pieces. For some reason the boards are full of anti-capitalist drones that will shill the crap out of socialism, and post regularly in threads involving elected officials. This is no coincidence. Openly slandering ideologies is political bait this season. I actually enjoy responding in kind with the truth as I see it. Conversations have a distinct flavor of a targeted agenda that really does nothing to further examine political science. Internet experts are jokes.
The last thing I will say on this topic is that the US is divided on abortion rights. Only 14 states have total abortion bans since Roe vs Wade was overturned and I doubt anyone here would be foolish enough to claim that those states speak for the entire population of the US. Yet when it comes to the execution by the state of Missouri of a black man, suddenly, that lone state speaks for an entire population of 330 million people.
suddenly, that lone state speaks for an entire population of 330 million people.
When someone calls a government a “regime” they’re usually implying that the government doesn’t accurately reflect the will of the people.
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