Discord feels like a necessary evil in my life since so many communities are on it. Trying Element was worse UX in my experience, which is awful if you’re trying to get people to switch.
Discord is relatively fine right now and the worst part of the privacy policy is the risk of being acquired. That said, Facebook seemed pretty nice and cool before it became what we know it is today.
I feel like its WAY to invasive in my privacy. I have to use it for so many things, but I try to get folks to use Telegram instead. Telegram is much nicer UI. Discord is over bloated with crap and keeps asking me to spend money.
I fracking hate discord. People use it for everything now, not just gaming, for the convenience of an easy to use cross-platform application. Almost every message board on the internet has been deserted and moved to discord. And it makes it so difficult to find anything useful. Every time I want to find something there I feel as if no matter how much time I spend using the search I’m never going to find it. And when I ask I feel as if the same question has probably been asked hundreds of times before and makes me feel dumb for not being able to find the answer. If you read the messages as they arrive, with just a couple of channels that you follow, your day is gone and you can’t do anything else. Of course it makes it convenient not having to create an account for each website like before, but so does the fediverse.
While I don’t think message boards should move to it, Discord has a pretty good search feature, have you tried it?
- It is Discord specific. Web crawlers can’t access messages. This means that instead of just using a search engine I now need to use a search engine and Discord. If we get a couple more of these services it is now a disaster.
- IIRC it is “server” specific. So you still need to know which “server” would have the answer to start even searching.
Yeah, I would love something like the fediverse that is analogous of Discord as I would absolutely move to it in a heartbeat. But alas
My main thought about discord is that the UX doesn’t work well for me. It is primarily focused on “communities” which I’ve never had the desire to organize my life into. I have a “server” that we use for chat during games because everyone knows it but then I have to do a couple clicks to switch to my friends “server” to see a new message, then a couple clicks back. Having two conversions in different communities is incredibly painful. There is also just as much awkwardness if you want to swap between DMs as well.
For me I much prefer the Element, Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp… approach where I just have rooms in a big long list (or sorted in a way that works for me). I don’t like this Discord, Slack forced 2-level hierarchy. I actually think Matrix+Element is killing it here with Spaces. Spaces provide a lot of the good parts of the Discord Server or Slack Workspace while still allowing you to get a big long list of rooms so that switching between a DM, room in one community and a room in a different one. You can even just link all of the rooms you are interested in to a private space to organize them however you want. I can’t wait for them to have a bit more time to polish the UX here.
I also don’t see the draw of separated voice and text channels. You always end up needing to share links or images anyways and have to awkwardly explain what channel you dumped it in. Eventually this leads to the
#voice-spamchannel which is effectively creating a voice+text channel with an awkward UX because the software doesn’t actually know that they are linked.I also don’t get why people like doing a lot of communication in chat over things like websites and forms. Especially for communities like speedrunning where it is actually nice to have documentation on strategies. They end up getting asked the same question every day then get mad that people didn’t read the 8th pinned entry in the 3rd FAQ room (which of course isn’t visible to Google). I guess it does create a “friendlier” atmosphere in theory since everyone is constantly helping everyone, but again, not my preference.
But these are all UX arguments that don’t work for me. They appear to resonate well with a wide group of people so I guess it is me who is “wrong” here. Of course that doesn’t mean that I won’t continue to avoid it.
UX aside I don’t like that it is centralized. I definitely try to stick to decentralized services where possible so that I am not beholden to the whim of a single operator.
Most of the other complains I see don’t bother me:
- phone number requirement: IIUC this is up to the mods of a particular community. I’m 99% sure that Discord doesn’t have my number. I don’t blame Discord for providing the option. It is also hard to blame mods for using it when it clearly solves real problems that they have. (It significantly reduces spam)
- Pedos, MAPs, groomers, razor sharp edgy kids, cyberbullying etc: Meh, I’m a fan of free speech. These people are going to chat somewhere so I don’t see why it can’t be the same software that I use. It isn’t like discord is a single chat room where you need to see all of this stuff. Just don’t hang out in communities that allow this stuff.
I think the main upside is that it is easy enough to use that most people can’t figure it out quickly without any help. That is an important point for any popular service. Unfortunately Element Android is still about 50% unguided success rate from my experience. I hope they keep streamlining it.
https://stallman.org/discord.html
Discord is bad because it’s a proprietary centralized silo platform that is hostile to third party clients. I also don’t like how they redefine terms (e.g. referring to communities/groups as “servers” and emotes as “emoji” which is an annoying thing that has spread even to the fediverse). I don’t like the culture of Discord and Discord-related memes/jokes.
The worst thing about Discord, however, is how so many communities more or less force it on users. I don’t like Discord and would be a happier person if Discord disappeared off the face of the world tomorrow but I feel I am required to use it (with a libre third-party client) to participate in some communities and stay in touch with friends.
It is not FLOSS, not self-hostable, not federated and it does not have real security (E2EE).
Is there something that is FLOSS, federated, E2EE, and would be user friendly like Discord is such that my friends would be willing to switch to it?
If a 8 years old child can use Matrix perfectly for their friends and is not a gifted child, your friends should be able to use it too.
However, I don’t know your friends.
Fair. I’m just unsure about how well they would take to wanting to move to Matrix. Also I have the issue of my own Discord server set up for my content creation. I’m not sure what I would do about that personally. I link to it from my other social media pages (that reminds me, I should link my Beacons page on Mastodon) and could ostensibly do something similar with a Matrix server (I don’t personally have any experience doing server management, but I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to figuring it out with my Computer Science minor).
Discord Server != real server, it is just a community or space and you have spaces in Matrix too.
In the begining, you could bridge rooms between Matrix and Discord using https://t2bot.io.
Discord Server != real server
Sorry about that, my apologies. I’ve been using Discord for like 6 years so I’ve gotten used to the terminology surrounding the platform.
I could looking into using a Bridge bot…I’d wonder about self-hosting my own instance. I don’t necessarily need to host my own instance of Matrix, right? I suppose there are certain things that hosting my own instance of Matrix would allow me to do, I’m just not currently in the right mind to come up with those. Neither do I really have the experience with server hosting as I said before.
Yeah, you don’t need to selfhost your own server if you don’t what or you can’t.
About the bridge, it is not just a bot because it has puppeting for Discord.
It creates puppets which represent each user of your rooms in the other platform (either Matrix to Discord or Discord to Matrix).
you don’t need to selfhost your own server if you don’t what or you can’t.
It’s not that I wouldn’t want to or that I can’t; I’m sure I would be able to figure it out after reading some documentation. I have some very basic experience coding a Node.js server as well as other general-purpose coding experience, so I could probably figure it out eventually.
My main thing about hosting is that I’m not sure I would need to host my own instance because, at least in my head, the kinds of things that hosting my own instance would enable me to do I wouldn’t necessarily need since I’m just trying to create my own space for people to chat.
Although, I do enjoy the whole compartmentalizing part of Discord where I can go to one space to talk about movies, another to talk about music, and another for my D&D group to have our role-play and other session-related things. Is there a way to achieve something similar in Matrix?
it has puppeting for Discord.
That sounds really cool! I’ll definitely have to look into that tomorrow when it’s not almost midnight. Also since this is for my content creation, I set limits for myself for how much I work to try and maintain some kind of work-life balance and I’ve kind of already hit today’s limit.
I don’t like the wording that people use when discussing Discord. Things like, “I’m going to start a Discord server” when in fact they are not self-hosting the server. This makes Discord sound more decentralized than it actually is and it it give the users more of an illusion of control when in fact the creators of Discord have all the control. Stallman was right when he described people as being used and not users.
To be honest. I think these days basically know one thinks of self-hosting or hardware when they hear “server”. Discord has become popular enough that there are more people who hear “server” and think “community” without any implication how it is actually operated.
I agree. I understand why, I just don’t like it :P
I don’t like Discord, but it solves an issue for people that no one has solved as good as Discord has.
Discord is just a great all in one solution for everything a gamer would want and then just for communities in general. I don’t think Discord is gonna go anywhere until someone actually matches them in features and does it good.
Edit: and they have to make it where you can do all of those things without having to self host or pay for hosting.
Guilded matches them in features and adds more gaming niched stuff like actual forums into your “server”.
matching Discord, or even improving on it, doesn’t matter. Discord is already king. To dethrone the king, non-Discord users need to be the main target so Discord users are forced to use both, until all their contacts merge and slowly migrate to the second software over time due to more features and ease of use.
Do I like discord personally? No
Do I think discord is a necessary evil? Yes
You’re shooting yourself in the foot as a OSS project if you don’t use discord, same with not using github.
But, at least for me, I hate my feet :)
Why couldn’t an Open source project use self-hosted Matrix and Self-hosted GitLab?
GitHub has network effects that makes it easy to attract users and contributors. You basically get some free marketing by hosting there. For established projects it doesn’t matter much, but when starting every bit of marketing can be incredibly valuable.
Yeah this, also consider that gitlab is not federated and people are not likely to make an account on your gitlab instance to contribute.
The same thing goes for discord, more people use it than matrix, and therfore you reach a larger audience by using it
re @Echedenyan@lemmy.ml not sure what part you are talking about, I’m happy to shoot myself in the foot for my projects because I don’t expect much contributors nore feel a drive for a big star count
gitlab is not federated
I was mistaken for thinking that it was federated. I wonder why gitlab isn’t federated, it seems like it would be beneficial for code contributions for open source projects if it had federation.
It is being worked in a separate project and by a different community.
The third line was my focus.
There is no such thing as neccesary evil.
You can use different kind of IM solutions depending on the needs for managing a FLOSS project and these must be FLOSS if there is option (by now, always are).
Not every people need voice or video channels. To be exact, I don’t know a single FLOSS project which use them, just a daily videocall if they work with SCRUM for the Daily SCRUM which can be made in several platforms.
You can just do this with a group of Matrix rooms (with space or just name prefix like use to be made on IRC) and Jitsi.
As for the code hosting… Is there a problem with just mirroring?
If you use Git you must know that is decentralized and all you need is an account at the hosting service which could be just raw username and password (plus email verification sometimes) or you can just login/register with your account from other service.
All this does is make it harder for your contributors. I’m ok with it for my projects, but many are not. I have certainly skipped out on some drive by contributions because it would require the hassle of making an account.
I think Evan is being ironic in the last part.
I guess I’m in the minority on this but… feature wise, I think it’s fantastic. It’s got nearly everything I could ask for, and I love how easy it is to stream and watch videos with groups of people. I often steam Seinfeld and other TV shows/movies in a leftist Discord community that I’m in and it’s just so nice to be able to do it so easily, without having to walk non tech-savvy users through lengthy troubleshooting in order for things to work. Pretty much any issue I’ve encountered when it comes to streaming/watching content was resolved within a few minutes of Googling.
Privacy wise, I wish there was an open-source alternative to Discord that a) has the same features and b) is user-friendly enough to actually shift Discord users to it. Unfortunately, pitching open-source alternatives to Discord is very difficult because they just aren’t as easy for most users to use and because it’s pretty hard to shift a large amount of users from one program they’re very familiar with to one that they’re not familiar with.
I think tech-savvy people are generally more inclined to shift to open-source software, particularly in the early stages, because they’re not nearly as bothered by the tinkering/troubleshooting involved. I think it’s similar to why so few people use Linux compared to Windows. But what a lot of tech savvy people just can’t wrap their heads around is the simple fact that for the overwhelming majority of users, they don’t have the time/patience/interest to switch to new alternatives to programs/systems they’ve been using for years and are comfortable using. It’s like pitching a jacket that is superior in terms of heat retention, but most people just think the design is ugly. If you want people to wear the jacket, the simple fact is you’ve got to make it appealing to them instead of stubbornly insisting that it’s got superior heat retention and therefore it just makes logical sense to wear it over the colder but far more popular jacket that people prefer because it’s fashionable.
When I was younger, I was all about the tinkering/troubleshooting to delve into the world of open source software. As I get older, I just want my shit to work consistently and for troubleshooting to include a large user base so that the odds of there being a solution is high. I no longer have the time/patience/interest to spend hours/days troubleshooting. Communications software like Discord is especially challenging when it comes to pitching an open-source alternative, because without major advantages that most users can appreciate enough to make the leap, the open source alternative’s population will remain quite low because most users are wiling to sacrifice privacy for convenience/familiarity.
No doubt, this post will irk some people but… what can I say? Open source software has to revolve around convenience because that’s what most users value above all else. Pitching an app like Signal to friends/family was a breeze because of how relatively seamless the process of installing/using it as a primary app for texting via SMS and Signal messages. But pitching an app like an open source Discord alternative, it has unique challenges that I really think developers need to pay attention to.
Right now, I think an unfortunate amount of open source devs are of the mindset as Principal Skinner:
"Am I so out of touch??"
"No, it’s the users who are wrong."
A lot of open source software is like the fanny pack or cargo pants-- functionally useful but good luck pitching either product to most people. I think a lot of open source advocates don’t take into considerate the social aspect of pitching alternatives to proprietary software and instead just dismiss it as unimportant, but then they’re left sort of bitterly wondering why nobody’s using the fanny pack/cargo pants of software. I’ve always found this interesting, particularly when it comes to the animosity the tech community has for Apple products. It’s like an anti-social/awkward person just not at all understanding why charismatic, fashionable people tend to be attract more positive attention or they do understand and stubbornly insist on not even attempting to be more charismatic/fashionable.
I don’t use it and I don’t like it. I couldn’t find my way around it, I have tried and it is difficult to understand imo
From a privacy perspective it sucks . The locking of basic features behind a paywall also sucks. The lack of federation sucks. It being closed source sucks.
From a UI perspective and Funktions it is awesome.
I agree. Discord is buggy, inconsistent across platforms and the company is pretty terrible. But what most people care about is the UI and features, and that Discord nails.
As much as I have tried to use it constantly for a few days (I joined a few communities from Twitch streamers), I feel it is complicated, specially when there are servers with a bunch of channels where everyone interacts and there are too many notifications. It’s too much for me.
I see its benefits of how easy is to enter a voice channel and such, but that’s it. There is nothing that makes me feel attached to it (not even the FOMO for not interacting helps).
And being a closed-source tool, makes things even worse.
I don’t really like it. But used to use it to create bot, it was fun for a while until I have no idea what to do with my bot. I used to be quite dependent with it due to my association with some people. But I managed to quit.
Because it’s somehow popular, there’s some good communities I can interact with.
But generally I don’t understand why some people are very eager to advertise their discord server, even some are just about niche topics. What is it with administering a discord server seem to be interesting for them?
I like it in terms of engineering. It is a very complicated piece of software that works so well that they have been able to build a very large user base in no time. It
The downside is of course that it is close source and nightmare.
Their internal parts are nice, but their public API is a bit meh imo, specially considering their attitude towards devs. b1nzy, night and the others are not very welcoming, which has lead to some serious issues like Danny (author of the huge discord.py library and admin in the huge unofficial DAPI server) quitting.
Yeah, I would love for Discord to be more open sourced. Unfortunately there really isn’t an open-sourced alternative out there for Discord like how Lemmy is an alternative to Reddit and Mastodon to Twitter and Pixelfed to Instagram.