Socialist countries do uphold that, though, to the extent physically possible. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski’s Human Rights in the Soviet Union. Are you just opposing revolution, because overthrowing the capitalists, fascists, slavers and tsarists requires infringing on their rights? In that case, certainly you’re upholding the systems that allow them to destroy human dignity each and every day?
I didnt oppose the socialism in the real world in the first place. I said i dont like some of them in the way they have behaved. They could behave differently, and then I would like them. They can reform and be better. But until they do, id rather not model other new things on them. And if a country gives kids free ice cream but shoots people every day, I can like that they give out free ice cream and hate the violence.
You’ve been vague and cagey, though. Nobody is saying that you have to support every single action imperfect countries take. How could socialist countries behave differently to the point that you would like them?
This is social media, not a presidential debate stage. And all I started with was reassuring a fellow anarch communist that’s its okay to want nice things. Im done playing 20 questions.
(Assuming you are an USAmerican in this context)
Like, imagine if you want to fight against the I-C-E or groups who want to ban abortion etc, and you use only peaceful means, while they do not care.
You’ll have to fight, right?
And if you win, wouldn’t you have to keep the mercenaries under custody or watchlists to keep them from reforming? And also actively repress their ideology using the state machinery?
If you don’t wouldn’t they overthrow you soon?
I think that is how it’d go.
But yes, excesses should be avoided and tech development should be focused on, to show even the opponents that things are better with socialism.
Even then, you’d have a minority who’d you need to be wary of.
Tho, if you are doing this in USAmerica, you have one less worry, of the USAmerica couping you.
Well first of all, you dont need a Powerful state to have a prison. But you also dont need to use prisons, you can go for more of a rehabilitation center, I mean, most people need only a 2-6 week detox from hateful rhetoric to calm down a bit.
And the number 1 reason people turn to regressive talking points is because life is hard under capitalism. If you just make a loving social safety net built on compassion and human dignity, everyone lifted up will further calm down.
Im not saying we wont need to crack a few eggs to make the omelet, but I am saying that we should use as few as we can. And more importantly, needing to do so today doesnt mean we will need to continuously do so tomorrow and the next day.
Well first of all, you dont need a Powerful state to have a prison. But you also dont need to use prisons, you can go for more of a rehabilitation center, I mean, most people need only a 2-6 week detox from hateful rhetoric to calm down a bit.
Well, if you’re not allowing them leave until they are rehabilitated and they don’t volunteer to be rehabilitated, it is very similar, right?
Also, without a decently powerful state, how would find he resources and organise the tasks during the transition?
Like, it’s not like your enemies would be ok with it? What if they sabotage and attack. Especially if they have external allies to destabilise your movement?
You know that there are more than 5 ideologies right? You dont have to be straight to the corners of the compass or the very middle of enlightened centricism? I can hold a fairly anarchist position without leaving my ideal governance without power?
Taking up the existing state power in the course of the transition might be necessary, but it can still be done with far more human dignity than anyone is used to. Dismantling an armed force the size of the US military cant be done in a night anyway. Idk man. All the circumstances that go into answering this question mean that answering it today is impossible. I just think political leaders should care about people. Thats who ill put my support behind
We’re not the ones insisting that no real socialist project has ever been good enough. We’re the opposite of pessimistic; we think AES has been a tremendous success
I know its tough out here. But im with you. We should not need to shrink our dreams of freedom because its hard.
What would need to be different for you to support existing socialism over your “dreams of freedom?”
Human dignity for every single person is at the heart of my politics. If a nation is not holding up to that, then we can dream better.
Socialist countries do uphold that, though, to the extent physically possible. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski’s Human Rights in the Soviet Union. Are you just opposing revolution, because overthrowing the capitalists, fascists, slavers and tsarists requires infringing on their rights? In that case, certainly you’re upholding the systems that allow them to destroy human dignity each and every day?
No I am not.
So then what materially needs to be different for you to support socialism in real life over opposing it?
I didnt oppose the socialism in the real world in the first place. I said i dont like some of them in the way they have behaved. They could behave differently, and then I would like them. They can reform and be better. But until they do, id rather not model other new things on them. And if a country gives kids free ice cream but shoots people every day, I can like that they give out free ice cream and hate the violence.
You’ve been vague and cagey, though. Nobody is saying that you have to support every single action imperfect countries take. How could socialist countries behave differently to the point that you would like them?
This is social media, not a presidential debate stage. And all I started with was reassuring a fellow anarch communist that’s its okay to want nice things. Im done playing 20 questions.
This might just be the most privileged thing I have ever read in my life
You cannot convince me to take you seriously after that.
No, of course not. Coddled westerners will never listen to anyone who challenges their privilege
But won’t you be forced to it too?
(Assuming you are an USAmerican in this context)
Like, imagine if you want to fight against the I-C-E or groups who want to ban abortion etc, and you use only peaceful means, while they do not care.
You’ll have to fight, right?
And if you win, wouldn’t you have to keep the mercenaries under custody or watchlists to keep them from reforming? And also actively repress their ideology using the state machinery?
If you don’t wouldn’t they overthrow you soon?
I think that is how it’d go.
But yes, excesses should be avoided and tech development should be focused on, to show even the opponents that things are better with socialism.
Even then, you’d have a minority who’d you need to be wary of.
Tho, if you are doing this in USAmerica, you have one less worry, of the USAmerica couping you.
Well first of all, you dont need a Powerful state to have a prison. But you also dont need to use prisons, you can go for more of a rehabilitation center, I mean, most people need only a 2-6 week detox from hateful rhetoric to calm down a bit.
And the number 1 reason people turn to regressive talking points is because life is hard under capitalism. If you just make a loving social safety net built on compassion and human dignity, everyone lifted up will further calm down.
Im not saying we wont need to crack a few eggs to make the omelet, but I am saying that we should use as few as we can. And more importantly, needing to do so today doesnt mean we will need to continuously do so tomorrow and the next day.
Thank you
Well, if you’re not allowing them leave until they are rehabilitated and they don’t volunteer to be rehabilitated, it is very similar, right?
Also, without a decently powerful state, how would find he resources and organise the tasks during the transition?
Like, it’s not like your enemies would be ok with it? What if they sabotage and attack. Especially if they have external allies to destabilise your movement?
You know that there are more than 5 ideologies right? You dont have to be straight to the corners of the compass or the very middle of enlightened centricism? I can hold a fairly anarchist position without leaving my ideal governance without power?
Taking up the existing state power in the course of the transition might be necessary, but it can still be done with far more human dignity than anyone is used to. Dismantling an armed force the size of the US military cant be done in a night anyway. Idk man. All the circumstances that go into answering this question mean that answering it today is impossible. I just think political leaders should care about people. Thats who ill put my support behind
So, a prison.
Just say you know nothing about prisons or prison abolition
These gentlemen think that when they have changed the names of things they have changed the things themselves.
Privileged Western “leftists” get to focus on “dreams”. The rest of us less coddled have to focus on the real world
Pessimistic “leftist” seen here not focusing on the real world but instead imagining maximum doom
We’re not the ones insisting that no real socialist project has ever been good enough. We’re the opposite of pessimistic; we think AES has been a tremendous success