Always buy second hand
This is exactly what i just did. No regrets. Foss everything, no mainstream social media. I love it
The Fediverse is not perfect, but it actually blew my mind a bit how much it lowered my blood pressure to not see the constant ragebait, and the calm of not being exposed and monitored at all times. I still have Snapchat just for one person, and WhatsApp which is Meta but still E2EE. Other than that, I’m all in on FOSS privacy approved apps and man does it feel great.
Here it’s us, real people rage-baiting you on employer time!
Ah yes, organic rage bait instead of Ai swirls fancy wine
You guys have employers?
Shitposting from under the bridge in the Canadian winter sucks so wage labour it is.
It really goes to show no little of the abuse we suffer is inherently the Internet’s fault. Lemmy feels like the reddit I knew and loved of 15 years ago. Sure there’s some assholes I argue with but that’s the normal amount of shittieness not the turbocorpo abuse
A lot of it is hitting critical mass too. Reddit used to be tech enthusiasts and stem students the same way Fediverse is currently. Now any town idiot yahoo from the sticks will angrily yell at you on Reddit for no reason.
But yeah the algorithm is a lot stronger than it would seem.
Some are trying though. Some one tried to be a smart ass saying that us lemmyngs where cool with piratage when it is for random people but not when it is for facebook so we should be ashamed. He got his ass handed by multiple people. Good time. Not even an insult was thrown <3 it was civilized, I love you guys.
civilized
that reminds me of something … one of the greatest milestones of civilization is said to be canalization, and we are indeed all connected through shitposts :)
When I first joined Reddit, it was so similar to Lemmy in its principles. Relatively progressive, open source, tons of interesting people having real convos about the nerdiest stuff and talking about the world. It was real, and the fediverse has absolutely nailed recreating that sense of community. What a beautiful safe haven we have
it’s refreshing to see real internet community
WhatsApp which is Meta but still E2EE
As far as you are told. There is no verification that is true.
There is no verification that is true.
But there is a nearly continuous stream of occurrences where Meta is caught lying.
It is actually verified e2ee. However, they do keep a ‘spare key’ for every single user and chat, you know, in case they need to help you, the good guys at Meta.
Can you show me where it’s verified? Did someone get to see the code?
https://www.nccgroup.com/media/fzwdxklh/_ncc_group_whatsapp_e001000m_report_2021-10-27_v12.pdf
https://eprint.iacr.org/2023/843.pdf
Also, their e2ee is built on the signal protocol. Now, their server code and client code are not open source, so they could have left all types of doors open for their benefit. Also, the Metadata is not encrypted at all, something they actually brag about for some reason.
And just to be clear, I am a genuine 'everything-meta-hater" (and Google, MicroShit, Crapple, Crapsung, etc.), but spreading misinformation doesn’t help preaching about privacy and security.
That verified if their backups were end to end encrypted though right?
It’s also interesting what was out of scope:
Limitations
The following components were not in scope; NCC Group was therefore unable to evaluate and identify issues with them:
• Third-party and proprietary HSM vendor implementation.
• Backup encryption implementation.
• Side-channels in the access, creation, modification and deletion of backup data on third-party cloud storage.Dude, you seem to be under the impression that I’m somehow defending meta, and you’re evidently in battle mode. I said my piece, provided the evidence as requested. I guess this is where I drop off of this convoy for ith you, buddy. Make of it what you will. Have a good day.
As far as I’m aware Moxie Marlinspike made the encryption before it was acquired by Facebook. One of the founders of WhatsApp now finances Marlinspike’d Signal messenger.
In theory Meta only sees who you communicate with, but not what you communicate.
(I wouldn’t be surprised if the bastards are trying to undo the encryption if they already haven’t.)
before it was acquired by Facebook
not that it really matters, but it was a few years after the acquisition.
They have had some third party audits. It is not totally convincing to me as being trustworthy, but I see it as more of an acceptable necessary evil. Better than Discord, Snapchat, Facebook Messenger, probably even SMS. My wife’s whole family uses just WhatsApp, and so do some businesses even in her country. Believe me though, anyone I can get on Signal, Matrix, Session, etc, I do.
There have been third party audits, but the conclusions have been that you can’t know if it’s implemented correctly or at all. Nature of closed source. Because you can’t know where the keys are.
I get the doing business in their country. That is so difficult to overcome. I will not do it. Foot down on that one, and it does make it hard. My wife’s family does the same as you mentioned. I just tell them they are literally paying for fascism. They don’t care. Or you can pick from many of the ills of Meta products (energy use, AI, misinformation, or even simply making someone a billionaire by contributing nothing to society).
Makes it hard.
I’m working on it and avoid it when I can as I mentioned. The only reason I mentioned it is that it’s one of the last vestiges of apps I don’t fully trust. I treat it like SMS or email, I don’t send anything I don’t expect could be audited by the government with the right subpoenas.
But sometimes I’m in a weird position. If I need to order food in my wife’s country, I am not going to be able to contact the restaurant without WhatsApp. Then I, as a white American who doesn’t know them, am going to explain to the delivery guy the reasons why they shouldn’t support American fascism, in their native language that I am not 100% fluent in?
It isn’t American fascism of course. It’s everywhere.
But I get it, I find myself in the same boat traveling and visiting family. It really is pervasive. So in your scenario you can’t just go pick it up yourself?
I know there are other ones though: Everything in some places works like this where they want to do a call back - deliveries, doctors appointments, services. WhatsApp has almost, if not completely, replaced the phone, so even getting a local sim doesnt help.
I simply refuse to play along. I wont do it. Somehow we seem to work it out.
Lol, story of my life. But the best part is looking at people’s faces when you say ‘I don’t have whatsapp’ 🤣
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Why use WhatsApp instead of Signal? I don’t go near WhatsApp because of Meta, so I genuinely know very little about it.
because in some countries it’s been the default means of communication for over a decade, which means a network effect.
I don’t, I use Signal whenever I can. WhatsApp is for businesses that use it, and the people who refuse to go to Signal, or can’t figure it out. Like my mother in law tried but got confused and so far have been unsuccessful troubleshooting why long distance. But I still need to talk to her.
E2EE but with a caveat that they can do on device detection of unencrypted messages and flag content back to mothership
What messages would be unencrypted in this scenario if it is E2EE? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.
The what’s app is encrypted to get to your phone so transmission is protected, however to view your message it is unencrypted (obvious) and at that stage WhatsApp will parse it for key stuff such as Child Sexual stuff, or other threats they have determined they look for, that then triggers a data send back to the mother ship. The problem with this is if the Government wants to silence a political opponent or journalist they can go to Meta and request a search other than CSAM. So end to end encryption via any META product is a joke
Hm yeah that blows.
haha, the “lowered my bloodpressure” bit is sooo relatable :)
I just did this too, except I bought a refurbished Pixel, so I paid someone else $100 for Google to fuck off lol.
Not much longer im sure. I have no reason to believe that they will continue making it possible to un/relock the bootloader considering their push for google certified only android.
This is what I’m afraid of too. I could see apps like fdroid and the ability to install custom roms being taken away within the next year or two. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t have a good feeling. I need Linux phones to be a thing now more than ever.
Wdym by “you could see” as if its not whats already announced to be happening. Fdroid will not cooperate with googles app verification process which means Fdroid will stop working on all google certified devices, meaning everything other than devices with custom ROMs. NewPipe also announced they wont get google verified meaning it will stop working too.
I never know what to expect from Google. They respect open source efforts to an extent, but play Calvinball with where they draw the line. In any case, Motorola will be an option soon, maybe more. And there are other custom ROMs, albeit not as thorough as Graphene. And for me? They can’t take it away now that I already did it, so I’m good for up to 7 years unless my phone breaks.
If I recall correctly grapheneOS is going to switch to Motorola for their new releases
Buying new is still screwing yourself over. Buy second hand and take advantage of all the fools thinking they have to upgrade every year.
Most used pixels are oem locked verizon ones. They say unlocked, but they only mean carrier unlocked.
You can check the model number to tell if it’s an OEM. I got my last phone off Swappa which allows you to filter by stuff like model number and condition.
this, especially as graphene seems to support devices outside of when google would
But then I wouldn’t have been able to make this meme.
And the only price, you’ll need to see the Google logo flash brightly every time you reboot.
I hâte this reminder too. But the constant playsyore is missing permissions is a reward. Yes stay here little software keep complaining, your owner can go fuck them self.
Gives me a jumpscare when I apply updates, not gonna lie
I’m glad that GrapheneOS exist, and it’s sad that they are the exception and not the rule.
I think projects like CalyxOS and LineageOS should adopt some feature from GrapheneOS like contact/storage scopes, sandboxed Google Play Services, Network and Sensor toggles.
At the same time, I think GrapheneOS needs to reevaluate their presence in social media.
It’s why I made sure to get my newest phone used, but that comes with the risk of getting a Verizon model (in the US) which can’t be bootloader unlocked. Had to return the first one I got off eBay for that reason, and the second one I made sure to ask the seller where they initially got it from.
The only reason I don’t use GrapheneOS is because of thte tight coupling they have with Google’s hardware.
It’s not that they have a deal with Google, it’s that Google’s hardware security is best bar none except maybe iPhone. And Graphene is the best way to degoogle, as counter intuitive as it may seem. They are working with other manufacturers to get these security requirements for new phones so Graphene can be put on them.
Hardware security is largely irrelevant. It makes sense for some use cases, mine everyday use is not one of them. There are much more important threat vectors, such as all the acounts of the cloud services I use.
I wouldn’t say it is irrelevant when there is a worldwide push towards authoritarianism and countless examples of unreasonable search and seizure.
Plus, everyone has their own threat model. It’s almost a meme in the privacy community, but there’s a reason threat modeling and prioritization is step #1. It may not be a big concern to you (in your opinion), but imagine if it didn’t exist for someone who needs it.
I wouldn’t say it is irrelevant when there is a worldwide push towards authoritarianism and countless examples of unreasonable search and seizure.
Hardware security is irrelevant for that. As it is irrelevant for most other things.
Authoritarian governments are not going to bother with hacking you. They will just force you to unlock your devices or go to jail for obstruction of justice.
Real security starts with de-Googling, de-Facebooking,… etc
Why, because you can’t afford it (reasonable), because you think it helps Google (unreasonable), because you think it’s a privacy risk (unreasonable), or because it feels icky (unreasonable)?
The profits from Pixel hardware sales are a drop in the bucket for Google. I’m pretty sure the only reason it exists is so they can have insight and control over the hardware ecosystem, as without it they’d be driven by whatever Samsung wants to do.
The walled Android ecosystem is where they make the bulk of their money, and Graphene actively pulls people away from that and to something objectively better. Graphene is fully de-Googled and safe from their spyware, and exists outside of their business model. Using and promoting Graphene actively hurts Google, even if you have them $1k for a phone.
Also, there are plenty of cheap second hand pixels on ebay, and Google doesn’t see a penny from those sales. Recycling is good for the planet anyways.
Also, there are plenty of cheap second hand pixels on ebay, and Google doesn’t see a penny from those sales. Recycling is good for the planet anyways.
This is where I disagree. Buying second hand google phones supports the second hand value of these phones, which in turn indirectly benefits Google because people are more likely to buy them.
because you think it helps Google (unreasonable)
I personally think this can be reasonable if you’re the type to talk all about your hardware with people. You might not like promoting Google, so you choose a different device with a different privacy OS because you would rather talk about that to people.
For me, I don’t talk about my phone much to people - so I just bought a second hand Pixel 8, put Graphene on it, and popped a sticker over the Google logo. Using a case that’s not clear does just as good of a job. I will probably replace it with a Motorola eventually when they start releasing phones with GrapheneOS on it.
Motorola announces partnership with GrapheneOS.
https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at-mwc-2026/
They’ve got SD cards and headphone jacks too.
That’s pretty bloody awesome!
Maybe, you could buy a Motorola as well in the near future.
https://motorolanews.com/motorola-three-new-b2b-solutions-at-mwc-2026/
Fairphone with the necessary hardware to support GOS would be the dream ngl…
if possible they could have two models, one focusing on sustainability and another on privacy
I agree. IMHO, at the moment that would be the best solution.
I tried FF with Murena, but couldn’t really appreciate it: to me the interface is too “iPhonish”, not practical nor comfortable.
GOS is much better, not just for the security but for the user experience as well.
GrapheneOS seems to feel the same way about Google: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116159602850585685
GrapheneOS currently relies on Google for both hardware and security updates. The Motorola thing is encouraging, but they never should have built on Google phones to begin with.
I couldn’t do it myself. Ended up going Fairphone and Calyx instead. Just patiently waiting for Calyx to start releasing again.
I hope they’re not ending the project. They were pretty comfortably the best Graphene alternative but you’ll need security updates.
True. The OG GrapheneOS alternative was DivestOS, which actually pulled a lot of features from Graphene. Still so sad that project ended
They’re still working on it. Getting closer and closer to releasing again. No timeline unfortunately though.
I’m on the same boat; FP4 + CalyxOS. Do you know have they (Calyx) confirmed anything about the projects future? Last I heard was in around december, and things were quite uncertain back then.
They’re getting closer. Last update was end of Feb. Most of their updates seem to about security stuff I don’t understand, but it’s nice to see they’re working on it.
I didn’t want to give google any money, so I am using a Pixel 6 I got for free at this time. Actually moved from an iPhone 15 and it does not feel slower at all with Graphene OS. I’ll have to upgrade in October when support runs out though, so I’ll be eying used Pixel 9a’s in the summer.
Flagship hardware has been sufficient long term for a while now. I’d still be using my 6 year old phone if it had security updates and I wasn’t getting into privacy and security
I still have my CAD $210 Google credit from Google because they throtted my Pixel, and I might let it expire because I want a Fairphone instead.
This is the way
I really wanted GrapheneOS, but ended up with /e/OS on a fairphone because I refuse to give Google any more money.
After replacing the default launcher with Lawnchair, I’m pretty happy with it. The physical switch (remapped to control the torch) is a nice touch.
I don’t understand. Do you not know that buying second hand means the company does not get your money? I bought a second hand Pixel 8 at the end of 2024 just to put GrapheneOS on it, and I also refuse to give Google money.
I bought my Mum a Pixel 8 also this year, and put GrapheneOS on it - also second hand.
Either way, I’m happy for you that you ended up with a private phone, I just don’t understand why so many people seem to forget that second hand is a way of not supporting companies.
