My god the comments. You are perfectly allowed to not know much about a country. I don’t know about PRC either. But I know to keep my mouth shut on matters I don’t know about. I don’t go on parroting propaganda for those things.
Westerners today have so much in common with their inquisition and crusades predecessors. They replaced Christianity with Western Liberalism and they fight for it with the same zeal. Either you adopt their values and systems or you are an evil heathen who must be destroyed.
There’s an interesting blog that analyzes the transition of political economy from medieval europe to the rise of capital through a perspective of the mechanics of occult practices. It’s pretty well thought out and compares church occult practices and their relations to “capital occultism” via social relations and rituals.
This post is about how money aka capital is transmuted to embody commodified labor value in a similar structure of social relations (“occult magic”) as the holy cracker being consecrated and transmuted to embody the flesh of Jesus Christ.
https://ianwrightsite.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/dark-eucharist-of-the-real-god/
The previous post is also quite good that covers the concept of Marx’s “real god” that is manifested via the capital imperative to continuously increase profit and accumulation.
All states are bad, but if we’re talking about which ones are arguably better or worse on the world stage…
“USA USA USA, WE’RE NUMBER 1!”
Proudly colonizing for 250 years?
Power for things like colonizing is the best indicator of a successful state. End state power. I like that the original was intended as a slight against anarchists. States keep projecting that vertical energy.
Seems to be what people do. America isn’t the first or the only one. People are shit is that your argument?
“All people are colonizers. Those who aren’t colonizing aren’t people” - colonizer brain in action.
“If I don’t steal it, someone else will”
If, over the next 10 years, your country became more and more like China, would you go along with the changes? Would you have any problems with the transformation?
- modern electricity grid quickly moving away from fossil fuels
- high speed train network
- cheap fresh produce
- affordable housing
- transitioning to socialism via the development of productive forces
- strong investment in education and R&D
- quickly advancing tech in almost every sector that matters
- people-directed governance that is not subservient to capital (foreign or domestic)
- very low crime
- ecological restoration that won’t get cancelled by the next elected administration
- cheap and good quality healthcare
- bold long term vision and consistent achievement of it over time
objectively better than just about any other place
I wish my country became more like China over the next decade
The education is also non-competitive and crippling for the not-so-gifted students, yes?
Because I don’t hear about many student suicides (specifically due to stress and pressure) outside of the Asian countries.
Selective hearing, racist edition
incredible
I specifically mentioned Asian and including China.
So…Please give me now a comparison to western societies like EU countries (or US if it easier to find statistics)
C O P E
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You can just admit to being wrong without trying to insult everyone that was correct.
Sorry that you got banned and hexbear’s “left unity” shit on you. Left wing chuds hate being questioned.
Your list should include pros and cons. Which is your country?
Given that I live in the US Empire, a number of things will go differently for socialist construction. The US Empire is de-industrialized, and is a settler-colony. Decolonization and re-industrialization will both be required. However, certain aspects of China’s experience with socialism will also be experienced by the socialist state replacing the US Empire in this hypothetical, and I support that as well.
I really don’t know what it’s like in China because I’ve never been there. I know some people who are from China but they’ve never really talked about anything other than visiting their families. All I hear comes from the US propaganda machine, so I can’t really have an informed opinion. This is probably how it should be for like 95% of Americans. We don’t need to have an opinion about everything ffs.
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because they don’t have political freedom. there’s no stuff like “you can speak your mind as long as you’re respectful”
And the West definitely, absolutely has that
i mean yeah, literally, look at how the Iranian regime is allowed to post its anti-US propaganda lego movies on Twitter.
edit: nvm that was a bad take.
Look at how many people have been arrested and jailed for saying “From the river to the sea”
yeah the UK is going downhill very quickly and it’s evident in how nervously they respond to that saying.
Who said anything about the UK?
Guess you haven’t been following the news lately.
Yet just as these creative expressions of national resistance reached peak global influence, YouTube jumped in. The platform suspended the Explosive Media channel under baseless allegations of policy violations, effectively silencing a powerful voice of dissent
What followed was a transparent smear campaign by Western media outlets, led by the BBC, aimed at discrediting the creators and justifying the censorship. Their goal was clear: to silence any narrative that dared challenge the official US-Israeli framing of the aggression.
i indeed only found out about that rn
Yeah, how amazing that I can see anti-US propaganda Lego movies whenever I want. That’s what will ignite the revolution that makes our lives better, really some serious dissent that can conceivably lead to real change here.
Shitposts and memes about dissent to satiate the mases while all the real political discourse by activists with any real chance of accomplishing anything are censored and criminalised. Look at what happens to journalists objectively covering Iran, Israel, ICE, you name it. Look at how the protestors against oil pipelines or police racial violence are treated. So much freedom of speech for those people.
To be fair i speak my mind in a disrespectful way daily of the shit stained leader of the usa. They just let me do it.
Lol try actually advocating against him. They let you speak until the instant they think you might change something and have gotten really good at gauging that.
source:
FYI the thing about a central guy in charge has always been a myth, even since Stalin’s time:
What happens with China is essentially you have local committees for things like small towns and villages, where anyone can run for office. Then those many small councils form the pool of candidates for promotion to larger regional and federal committees, forcing would-be bigwigs to work their way up from the bottom. I believe the DPRK uses a similar system.
I hope this hasn’t come off as hostile, since I know these conversations can get contentious fast. But you seem like a refreshingly normal person rather than one of the ideologically motivated internet cold warriors we often get around here, so I figured I’d try and add constructively instead of tear down.
But you seem like a refreshingly normal person rather than one of the ideologically motivated internet cold warriors
hehe thanks, i try to be.
You know nothing about China’s political system except the white-supremacist tropes you’ve ingested about it.
It’s possible to simultaneously think there are issues with the Chinese government and U.S. government. You could mention 3 June 1989 I’m China or Epstein files in the U.S.
Sure, and most communists do have their issues with the CPC. The important thing is that those issues are based in fact rather than the wild and lurid stories that the Epstein empire tells about the people it’s afraid of.
If you have to go back forty years to find an issue with China, that’s incredibly complimentary.
What exactly did happen in tianimen square that is equivelent to the epstien files?
See this is how I know yall aren’t serious.
Having acquired the knowledge that all the enemies to the empire weren’t serious, the protagonist of reality went back to brunch. The end.
Clearly not here! Apparently only praise for China allowed!
Not allowed to dislike all governments! Only western ones!
Western chauvinists are so fragile that a simple insistence on facts over propaganda makes them feel like they’re in a dire civilizational struggle, and in a way they are. Just on the wrong side.
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I think a lot of what I hear from western media is communism fear mongering propaganda. But I also think that there are kernels of truth in some of it. China is a large country that I have no doubt is doing a lot of good stuff and a lot of awful stuff. Just like the USA does good stuff and awful stuff.
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The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people’s democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China’s success.
I highly recommend Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we’ve learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook.
Xi Jinping is not a “neo-Maoist,” he’s a Marxist-Leninist, same as all of the leaders of the CPC since Mao.
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This doesn’t actually bear out concretely in reality. The fact that the government has high approval rates is directly related to the consultative form of democracy practiced in China, and the nature of a socialist state as governed by the working classes. Western states see less support because they are dominated by a tiny minority, whereas China is led by the majority.
Lol Uyghurs amiright? 😂
🤔
Violence breeds violence, more news at 11.
Can you find evidence of even a single dead Uyghur?
Yeah, my buddy Uyghur Jim. He told me that China killed him, so we can’t hang out any more.
RIP, hope he gets better
You are doing genocide denial when you claim that genocide can happen without being accompanied by mass death. Genocide is the crime of crimes because it always involves mass slaughter of innocent people, to bring about their end. The invention of “”“cultural genocide”“” without any of the accompanying mass violence effectively whitewashes genocide as a concept.
Lol bro over here trying to downplay the horrific treatment of a whole people and claim everyone else is the problem 😂
Downplay what? A reeducation/deradicalization program isn’t fucking genocide on its own, it has to be accompanied by mass death, and when you say it is you are the one that’s donwplaying the crime of genocide as a concept. Even the boarding schools they used in the genocide in North America had mass graves, because genocide is always accompanied by mass death and to claim otherwise is whitewashing.
It’s the crime of crimes because it’s the worst violence that can be inflicted on a group.
So I’m not trying to defend the other poster but genocide by definition does not have to include mass death. And can include any of the following
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
In the real world there hasn’t been a genocide that didn’t involve mass death. 3, 4, and 5 all require a lot of killing to actually work.
Oh wow, a transphobic lib? So surprising.
A): Hey what do you think about the Russian intervention in the Ukranian civil war, and
B) The horrific treatment such as?
I’m genuinely undereducated here, not an op…
Accepting all that, that’s still essentially colonization, no?
Is there nuance I’m missing here? China’s seemingly codified cultural repression genuinely makes it hard for me to consider supporting them, whether or not they advance the cause of the average worker
They also don’t do cultural genocide, look at videos of random tourists visiting Xinjiang and you’ll see some locals speaking Uyghur, you’ll see mosques, museums, traditional Uyghur food, etc. The previous repression was meant to curve terrorism, it seems to have worked, and things have relaxed afterwards. I don’t see how any of this fits the picture of colonialism.
Well it certainly doesn’t fit the picture I was described! I was told Uyghers were being killed in some cases, and rehoused en masse in others.
If what you’re saying is right, and the Uygher culture is allowed to continue unharried outside of radical minorities then I would agree that doesn’t really compare to the horrors of colonization!
Is it actually illegal to be queer there too? Or is that also exaggerated?
It isn’t illegal to be queer, but gay marriage isn’t really legal either. It’s an upbill battle ironically held back by the fact that the PRC is a democratic country, and the older generations are still more socially conservative. As time goes on it has been getting better.
God damn, you actually checked it out. I’m genuinely not used to that level of intellectual honesty on the internet
In addition to the older generations thinking queerness is yucky, there’s also the problem of the West using our rights as a bludgeon to justify sanctions and wars. I’ve seen Westerners try to justify the genocide in Gaza because “they’d throw you off a roof for being queer!” As if Israel isn’t actively blackmailing us into being informants by threatening to out us to our families.
This is all to say that anti-queer sentiment has become deeply rooted among the masses, themselves.
Ah, bummer. I’m aware of how it’s used in identity politics, but I’d never considered how that use might foster distrust in an already culturally repressive populace. Sounds complicated, and I’m sure the aftereffects of imperialism haven’t done anything to help the nations they left devastated feel positively about a trend they might identify as foreign in that way.
Meant to curb terrorism. Lol. Sure.
We weren’t all born yesterday. We’ve heard all this before.
There’s literal footage of the terrorist acts. Do you expect China to let terrorists slaughter civilians?
When we look at how colonization in the real world happens we see it is accomplished, again, through mass death.
See: Israel
I largely agree, though Israel has used many nonlethal methods for a long time. There is a lot of violence involved in the process that doesn’t require death. Forced relocation is a pretty classic tactic, for example, which Israe has made ample use of in their ongoing genocide
The violence requires death, is the thing. People don’t just allow themselves to be forcibly relocated (as per your example), they will fight to stay on their land unless they face the threat of death (and many do stay, and die). Behind every “nonlethal” process is a death machine that makes it possible in the first place. That’s why colonization is always accomplished through mass death.
I’m trying not to get too caught up in semantics here. It sounds like you’re saying that the relocation that the Chinese government puts Uygher people through cannot be comparable to the relocation that other cultures have been put through, and that the lack of a mass death toll is serviceable evidence for that claim. Do I have that correct?
If so, it’s a good point! I think I had a presumption that the true nature of their (and any government’s) crimes was hidden. It does seem a bit far-fetched that it would be possible to cover up the kind of mass death that you’re saying would come with a colonization, so it’s a more reasonable metric than just making assumptions based on vibes I suppose. You’ve at least given me a less propagandizeable thing to research _
I suppose apartheid can be used instead of cultural genocide.
China isn’t preventing or discouraging intermarrying or intermixing with Uighurs, which is a key feature of apartheid. Neither do they have to use separate lanes of the road, carry special IDs marking their ethnicity, or forced to use different emergency shelters.
I use those examples because the real-world example of apartheid, Israel, is currently doing all of those things today.
I agree. I’m saying apartheid could be used to describe what many liberals believe is happening with Uighurs in Xinjiang, not what is actually going on.
Although even then I don’t think many people are arguing Uighurs are seperated legally in the way that you described anyway.
It would be just as incorrect
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Please define imperialism and explain what imperialist ambitions China has.
I appreciate the term “imperialistic ambitions,” because it acknowledges that China hasn’t actually done stuff that you could plausibly call imperialist, so all you can do is criticize stuff that they might possibly want to do someday.
Literally the spongebob “No, but are we gonna wait around until he does?”
You’re who this meme is about
If you can find me a governance representing more than 100 million people that is genuinely good, with no ifs ands or buts about it, I can prove that you are the brainwashed one.
Why does it need to be perfect to be good?
Hmm, must be an llm, they never said the word perfect. They never said anything had to be perfect.
How does that feel?
Well kind of funny because it’s not at all comparable to what you’re trying to compare it to. Also I never called anyone an llm I asked if they used it as it left an artefact.
How does that feel?
Embarassing in a secondhand way?
I need it to stop doing evil things first. I am all for reducing the evil, less evil is always great and ill always vote for a lesser evil. But dont expect me to a government structure good if it is still doing evil things. Ill call a politician good if they want to decrease the evil. But I will not call a country good if its still evil.
I have a question, what is your opinion on lesser evil? Is America the lesser evil in your opinion?
America is evil. There are politicians who are lesser evils within the usa. They dont make the US not evil, just less evil.
I don’t know individual politicians in china, but im sure there are plenty of lesser evil politicians there. That doesnt mean china isnt also doing evil things. I hope the evil reduces there. And in the usa. And everywhere else.
What are the evil things that China is doing? And on that note, what are these “lesser evil” politicians? Are you equating China as on the same level of evil as the US?
Here’s two examples of evil things that China is doing:
Persecution of Uyghurs in China
Internet censorship in Chinalol did you just google “evil things china does” and paste the first wikipedia links you find?
https://lemmy.ml/post/46090169 - A good article on Uyghurs.
Or if you want you can ask Cowbee and they’ll happily give you walls upon walls of information and sources of actual facts on China that you can then proceed to ignore.
The Uyghurs genocide that’s ongoing was shoved down our throats for years yet you people forget? Uh huh.
was shoved down our throats for years
I wonder why!
Do you deny the white genocide in south africa?
Do you deny that Hamas beheaded 40 babies?
It’s wild to me that grown adults still use “good” and “evil” as an actual heuristic
Of course evil is an actual heuristic - what point are you trying to make here?
It’s a useless heuristic, because it’s a fuckin magical metaphysical one. If you’re not a christian who believes in a spirit world, then stop letting the church define reality for you. Good and evil as concepts have no more valence on physical reality than karma or sin, and have no power to explain why things happen.
Children think in good and evil. Adults think in cause and effect. Be scientific.
Does River think their special for calling an unspecified murder a cause and effect instead of an evil? I dont think in a Christian way. I still think its fucking normal to call shit evil instead of explaining how the effects of murder are painful for the following litany of reasons
This whole post is brigaded. No where on the internet is safe.
Muhahahaha
That’s right, we’re everywhere and we’re coming for you👻
If you don’t like seeing commies don’t come to spaces where we hang out lol
Brigaded by whom?
If anything, done by people like them. A ML user posted this in ML itself, some of the folks from other instances come in with bad faith and/or bullcrap arguments, other ML users come in to defend and debunk, and we’re apparently the ones brigading in our own space.
K.
Ok. So all you’ve done is come up with a definition that means every country is evil, making it pointless to even talk about.
Awww, baby’s first analysis! Do the good guys wear the white hats (and the bad guys the black hats) so you know exactly who they are?
Good grief. You presumably have a brain, please try and use it. This is no way to have an adult conversation.
The world is super complicated and nuanced and im sick of people pretending that china is this bastion of good governance and im sick of people pretending that Harris would have been just as bad as trump. If you cant get on board with that, block me
Ha, still angry you sold your soul to a genocidaire who lost
Trump accelerated the genocide 1000 fold. I didnt sell out for shit, I was trying to save lives.
Absolutely wild to try and assert that westerners who think China is good are “brainwashed”. Like literally you are doing the meme.
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