Manager: We (meaning you) need to do task A. How long will it take?
Me: Task A will take X days to do.
Manager: That seems awful long.
Me: How long do you think it should take?
Manager: It surely could not take any longer than Y days.
Me: Ok, it seems you have an answer to your question then.
Later:
Manager: It’s been Y days, why isn’t task A done yet?
Fun fact, you can play tough too.
Manager: We (meaning you) need to do task A. How long will it take?
Me: Task A will take X days to do.
Manager: That seems awful long.
Me: How long do you think it should take?
Manager: It surely could not take any longer than Y days.
Me: Ok, which features are you willing to remove to make it fit in this timeframe?
It’s surprisingly effective, especially with a bit of seniority.
Regardless of how effective it is at managing expectations, my reality is:
Mgt: We need A within Y days.
Stf: A will take X (>>Y) days, A/2 can be ready in Y days.
Mgt: O.K., give us A/2 in Y days.
Y/2 days elapses.
Mgt: In addition to A/2, please add B, C and D to the deliverable.
Stf: You realize, that’s going to take an extra 2X days to deliver.
Mgt: yes, but we absolutely need B. C and D, whatever it takes, as soon as possible, don’t waste time releasing A/2, bundle them all together for efficiency.
Stf: Coming up.
3X/2 days elapse.
Mgt: you know B, C, and D that we asked for? Actually, what we need are D, E and F.
Stf: well, we’ve finished A/2, B and half of C. When do you need D, E and F.
Mgt: ASAP, put C on the shelf.
X more days elapse.
Stf: here’s A/2, B and D, how do they look?
Mgt: You know, the full A would be better… but E and G are our absolute top priorities…
I like “Y days? How are you doing it so it takes less than X?”
Oh nice one.
You can also add another layer by adding “you know that [infrastructure requirement] from [notoriously uncooperative infrastructure team] is gonna take at least Z days right?”, and if it isn’t enough, go for the kill shot “I’m gonna start writing the architecture principles this sprint, getting back to you as soon as they are cleared by [notoriously picky and detail obsessive software architect].”.
Haha! Yeah, I do this with requirements creep:
- Can you also compete task C while you’re there?
- Sure! In this timeframe which features are you prepared to sacrifice to make it happen?
- …I’ll think about it
Works every time!
All tasks are highest priority.
Then why do we even assign priorities?
Because they all need to be done.
Mine was always this:
Manager: How long will this take?
Me: 14 days
Manager: So it will be done in 2 weeks?
Me: No, it will be done after I’ve had 14 days of time to work on it.
Manager: What’s the difference?
Me: Am I still going to have random support escalations and will we keep having random meetings in those 2 weeks?
Manager: Yes.
Me: All those interruptions are me NOT working on the task. So it will be done in 14 days plus all the interruptions.
Manager: But this is very important!
Me: Can you then ensure I’m left alone to focus on this?
Manager: No.
Me: …
I see þis complaint all þe time, and I don’t understand engineers who don’t quickly adapt.
Manager: How long?
Engineer: (þinking 14 days) 4 weeks
Everywhere I’ve worked, þe next step is þat þe manager goes to a planning meeting, where business asks “How long,” and þe manager answers “6 weeks.”
You coould use ð for the voiced th sound (this, the, though) and þ for the voiceless th sounds (thinking, through, thick etc.) That is how they sound in Icelandic^^
It’s downvotes either way.
I reverse Dutch auction it. Every time the estimate is asked for/confirmed/reconfirmed/queried it goes up.
Dutch auctions are the ones where the high initial price decreases until someone buys the object.
Derp. Yes. I dropped a “reverse”.
Nothing is more triggering to me than the question “how long will this take?”
It will take as long as it fucking takes, and you shouldn’t be reporting anything until it’s done. Measure progress by fully working, end-to-end features, not by a number of hours someone pulled out of their asses.
You can estimate roughly if you know the scope amd constraints.
And you can’t plan if you don’t have rough estimates (not counting OPs example)I used to hate this. I still hate it, but I used to hate it, too.
More seriously, something that has helped from my managers is getting a “product requirements doc” or PRD. Management and customer reps put together a requirements document that says what they need built. Then you can break it down into work units for yourself and estimate the size with milestones and deliverables. It helps a bunch, even if it’s extra overhead at the start.
I do this often. I make product roadmaps, define my epics, etc. but a lot of times, in my work as a SWE consultant, the requirements are a moving target.
Usually:
Manager: We (meaning you) need to do task A. How long will it take?
Me: Task A will take X days to do.
Manager: That seems awful long, are you sure you are using our choice of AI tool correctly? NVM I vibe code that myself
Later:
Manager: Here is my vibe coded single PR with features A, B, F, and some refactoring. I have no idea what it does, could you check that it works? I have no specs, documentation or tickets for any of this and I don’t have time to fix failing CI gates
I’m really sorry this seems to be so common. I’m in a position where my PM accepts the team’s estimate, and even understands it’s just an estimate.
My answer to “how long will it take?” Has recently been “is it a higher priority than x,y, and z?” (While mentally deciding if it sounds more fun to work on than x y z along with t, u, v and w.
(Un)fortunately I’ve been working on the manager’s pet project, so I’ve had a semblance of focus.
…
Me: Task A will take X days to do.
Manager: That seems awful long.
Me: When do you need it?
Manager: I actually needed it yesterday.
Me:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
I usually tell them that I need to do it to in order to estimate how long it will take next time. next time it will already be done, here it is.
One time we spent like more than an hour in a horrible meeting to plan out how long the next step of a project would take. 4 weeks, we said. Management came back and said to do it in 2. Well, why did we fucking have the meeting if they had a deadline in mind already?
On the other hand, at my current job I have seen a lot of “oh that’s going to take a couple days” protests for things that are 20 minutes of work.
Seems like the solution is to get rid of out of touch management.
“In two weeks, you’re gonna notice that I haven’t been here in two weeks!
The usual response is a mail explaining what features will be cut to hit the deadline and ask management to inform the customer.
me: suggests anything extra not on the critical path but useful
lead: grumble dont bother automating it, just do a manual minimal local fix!!
later same issues appears
repeat local fix * 1000
