Good news for once
Maybe, but they only trying to silence them, not to solve the problems that cause their rising…
Racists and fascists should be silenced.
I’m sorry they are upset that they saw a minority or that they overheard people speaking a foreign language while being brown. They can get over themselves
You don’t need to pamper these beliefs. You can lead the voters to the actual cause of the issue without allowing them to empower fascists.
Usually the real issue is economic. Lack of housing, low wages, failing Healthcare. Those can be addressed. You don’t have to allow the group trying to blame poor minority groups a seat at the table. You address the real issues
“Oh no, a kebab stand on every street corner?!? What am I to do? Delicious, delicious kebab. I could try one from a different place every day and it would still take weeks to find the best one. This is unheard of! This is unfair! It’s the parliament’s fault! If they didn’t let in so many foreigners then I wouldn’t have this many choices before me. I could eat a good German currywurst, or a good German schnitzel, and not be inundated with so many options like ‘felafel or haloumi?’ or ‘döner or dürüm?’. This cannot stand!”
Well expect the local Döner shop can stay, he’s one of the good ones you see
Yeah right, if AfD had their way that guy and all his nephews would get picked up at the grocery store or at the park or on their way to work or in their own homes, and saying “but I work at the local döner shop!” isn’t likely to help them much.
Then all the right-wingers would start complaining when the döner shops all start shutting down, like “Those damn foreigners are abandoning me right when I need my lunch! I knew they were good for nuthin!”
It’s more of a joke on the people voting for the party and not the party line itself. The party means it
Kinda the classic conservative thing of not seeing a problem until it effects them personally. Or at least a variation.
The US is seeing the same thing, spouses voting for Trump then seeing their illegal/asylum seeking husband/wife deported and being shocked because “they were doing it right, or they were good not a problem”
The cognitive dissonance is amazing
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The AfD doesn’t really give a shit about foreigners. They mainly use them to gain votes. All they care about is money and power. Blaming foreigners for all of the problems is the easiest way to get votes. They hate poor white Germans almost as much as brown people.
Oh, they care about foreigners and who they behold to be foreigners. They already had a conference, in quite close proximity to the Wannsee, to discuss how they would like to handle them. No extermination, yet. But the Nazis also didn’t start with death camps but plans for deportation or ethnic cleansing or remigration like it is called today.
(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Potsdam_far-right_meeting)You’re absolutely right. But it is more a means of controlling anti-sentiments to gain votes and it works really well because they instill a fear into people that actually isn’t real. I’m fucking scared of what will happen when they come into power. What I meant with my comment is that they hate anyone who isn’t rich. A rich foreigner has nothing to fear as long as they play along. It’s disgusting.
All they care about is money and power. Blaming foreigners for all of the problems is the easiest way to get votes.
Hmm, I wonder who else tried this strategy in Germany’s history… 🤔
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It’s not exactly desirable. I’d prefer they remain in their home countries if there were peace. After all, it’s their home and it sucks to have to leave your home. But there’s war in those countries. The problems could be addressed, one being to allow immigrants to work for example.
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If it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck…
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Which problems do you mean here?
Neoliberal policies that take wealth way from everybody but the rich and gives it to them.
Neoliberal policies that take wealth way from everybody but the rich and gives it to them.
I do not know about other EU countries but in my country these far right voters want MORE Capitalism/Neoliberalism, not less.
Oh yes, that is the whole stupidity about it. They suffer from it, like we all do, and then they want more of it. But they need to be dragged towards leftist policies or they will drag us all into the abyss.
Because fascist parties have a scapegoat and clear things they want to change. Meanwhile the centrist parties that claim to be “left” are just sputtering around doing more of the same or window dressing approaches that do nothing, and are more interested in stopping the actual leftist movements that will help people and stop fascism.
The paradox is that they’ll blame taxation for being broke even if the actual reason is capitalism.
I reckon one major reason is that taxation is the visible part of your money being “stolen” whereas capitalists profiting off your labour is… well, potentially visible if it’s a private company and the owner flaunts his wealth, but generally if it’s a big publicly traded company, or a foreign multinational, etc, you need to be looking at the annual reports or something, because there’s no real local boss taking all the profit.
You don’t believe that causes people to vote rather left instead?
Sure, a certain part, but if I look at my country or other democratic countries the right manages through their control of the media to convince a lot of people that it is the immigrants fault and we just need to be more xenophobic and then we will all be better off.
If everyone was intelligent, sure. But that’s not how propaganda works, unfortunately…
Colored people 🫣😱
Sigh
That’s better than not silencing them, no?
You can snip the vocal cords of all the vicious dogs you want. Sure they stop barking, but they will still maul you
Then send animal control after the ones who bite.
But these aren’t dogs. These are humans with voting rights and the ability to run for office. Banning fascist political parties is a good thing, and it’s strange that you seem to think otherwise.
It’s an endless game of whack a mole if you silence specific parties. The only way to stop them is to improve people’s material conditions so that fascism has no appeal.
Yeah, that’s how they should’ve stopped hitler. Just improve people’s material conditions, it’s not like he’s actively sabotaging that in order to manipulate them into giving him more power. Oh wait, he did.
If whackamole is what it takes to keep the fascists down, then whackamole is what it’ll be. History is never over. Life and society are never won. There will always be a danger of resurgence. Vigilance will always be necessary.
Sorry to tell you this, but it’s true. The balance of the world hangs on a razor’s edge at the best of times. It doesn’t take much to destabilize a system when everything is going smoothly.
So sure, improve people’s material conditions. There’s a lot we could do better in the world. But don’t stop whacking fascism every time it rears its ugly head…
Dude, the German government literally handed power to Hitler in an election he didn’t win, because those in power would rather slaughter every minority they can think of rather than give an inch to the left.
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Are you sure you’re responding to the right comment? Not sure how that fits in any way as a response to what I said
You are correct, my mistake
You mean the problem that almost all media is controlled by right-wing billionaires?
yes, thats big problem. But it’s good to at least take away some power from the party
You mean the problem that almost all media is controlled by right-wing billionaires?
Maybe in the US this is true, not here
yes, thats big problem. But it’s good to at least take away some power from the party
No, you are not taking away some power from them, you are simply giving them more “weapons”. It would not be that difficult to frame this as “look, they want to silence us because we talk about $PROBLEM they caused”
Hey, german government, parliament and federal council. This is how that works, now do that, too. For fucks sake!
But their party leader is a lesbian who thinks her party’s official stance on homosexuality is “just politics” and doesn’t effect her personally (because she lives in Switzerland, of course)
So that means they can’t be fascists, right? …right?
Emmanuel Rohm was the leader of the Brownshirts during Hitler’s rise to power and engaged in almost exclusively homosexual relationships while publicly denouncing homosexuality
As were a great many in the party at the time.
yup. right wing politics in many ways is rooted in the conception of the self as special, and worthy of explicit privilege based on that
Good, fuck them and their anti-democratic brethren.
as much as i hate AfD and the far right, i think banning them will just put fuel on the fire and it gives them easy propaganda material, where they can pose as the victims here
it’s a really hard situation and banning feels like the bad move to me tbh
Tolerance paradox.
The problem is that they are being promoted and funded by our enemies. There is nothing democratic about the ways parties like the AfD are catching wind in the sails.
Amputation is a valid course of treatment while the cancer or infection is spreading. Leaving the limb alone can lead to dead much more quickly.
except it’s a bad analogy because you don’t get rid of the relatively big following of the far right this way, quite the opposite and it will just fuel them more and it annihilates this group from the democratic process, which leads to even harder radicalization
Banning a political party leads to a loss of funding and they’re not allowed to get back together in the same or similar constellation. It would set them back for at least a decade and destroys all of the work they put into their Nazi projects. It absolutely helps and it’s absolutely vital that this ban happens.
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There’s a huge report that a good handful of lawyers made about the AfD which explains why they are antidemocratic and unconstitutional. It’s obviously in German but I’ll be happy to drop a link once I get around to it. The AfD is without doubt the scariest of the bunch. You do not want to have them as your neighbours.
banning them just leads to some other even more radical party to rise up as the voter base who supports them won’t disappear
But to build up the infrastructure, the network, the funding takes years. That’s the main reason behind the ban.
Take it from us in the USA, do not fuck around with these types of groups
Dealing leniently with their predecessor just gave him time to write his manifesto.
pls make it happen
ESN is all about freedoms and democracy unless it goes against their interests
Maybe the people downvoting your comment should’ve read the article to figure out what ESN stands for.
Just your average fascists. It’s always the same with them, wherever you look.
Yup
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Far too late but good luck.
Do anyone have full list of parties that may get banned?
Article mentions obvious German afd, forum for democracy - fvd from Netherlands, Bulgarian revival and spd from Czechia directly. European esn party as mix of these and 6 more. Guess that’s all about them?
While EU gov on many levels, have way more far right or extremist groups, would they be affected too (pls be)?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_of_Sovereign_Nations_Group
Scroll down to MEPs
So theyre banning the group these parties are a part of, and no the parties. Thats not even clickbait, thats just misinformation if im reading this correctly.
This is about parties in the EU parliament which are made up of representatives from national parties. The EU can’t ban parties on a national level.
Banning a party will not magically make the support they have disappear. When people with fascist views get isolated, we only make them close more and more in their own bubble, which will just create more extremism. It’s the same with people that make fun of flat earthers. You are not going to change their mind, you are just sending them deeper into their delusions. People still don’t get that banning everything we don’t like is not a long term solution, but makes the problem worse (war on drugs, forbidding prostitution, etc)
It will not magically cure all problems, but it is indeed important to ban them. It will do multiple things, for example they will not receive any EU funding or other support. It will also prohibit them from advertising their views and they will not have a platform anymore in television and radio. Which will reduce the amount of propaganda they can spread and therefore reducing the impact they have on the population and in return reduce the support they have.
And this is just one aspect.
I disagree. Trump got elected (twice) with >30 felonies and after having said all sort of things that only few years ago would have made him completely uncandidable. Deplatforminng doesn’t have the impact that it used to have and only make the person look like “they are going against the strong powers”, that’s why the afd in germany keeps getting stronger despite the multiple bans, Trump in the US, the neo-fascists movements in the uk, the neofascists in Italy. What has calling these people “fascists” and isolating them has achieved? Only raising their consent. Also, television and radio are not so meaningful anymore as they used to be, internet has made them completely obsolete and most people take their info from the latter. It’s counterintuitive, but the political history of the last 10 years has proven this multiple times. It’s very useful to look into how cult works and what’s the best way to unlock them. Isolating the people in the cult is the worst move one can make.
Trump was not deplatformed, if anything the total opposite of that.
True, but not because they didn’t try, which is my point. The attempt was to make him so much of a monster and demonise him that nobody would have voted him. The point was to isolate him and they achived the opposite, as you correctly said.
I’d love to hear the thoughts of the people that downvoted. If they disagree with what i said, or if stimply they don’t like it and want it to disappear. Unironically, the (very expected) reactions to my comment are proving my point.
Letting more and more people radicalise further is no solution either. We’ve seen what happened in the US.
No, the key is general education, deradicalisation for those most prone to spreading fascism, and improvement of life standards.
Restricting immigration is one way, but we should add an article that for all the anti-immigration statements fascists make (even about refugees), they’re forced to live like the refugees did.
What, don’t want to live in a tent in a starved area? Or not have access to medication? Then how about you go improve their life standards instead of sucking oligarchs’, oil and gas industries’ dicks?
Let’s see how the 30% of nazis and / or uneducated idiots who voted for them will react.
Not a fan. This is inherently anti-democratic, regardless of the views that the efn espouses.
These groups are themselves anti-democratic. Democracy is allowed to defend itself.
I would go further, democracy must defend itself. It’s an embarrassing failure to allow anti-democratic parties to gain power through democratic means.
Well, this is democracy undermining itself. Parties with millions of supporters don’t just randomly pop up for no reason. They come about due to real people having real problems.
Banning parties is a good way to become blind to that.
That is just a pragmatic argument, independent of my conviction that every citizen should have a right to equal representation, a right to be heard. No ifs’ and buts’ and no “but not like that” if I find their opinions unpalatable.
It is the same foundation I stand on to assert my own right. I will have my say. If that were taken away, I’d be inclined to tear it all down.
One very angry person can do a lot of damage today. How about the ten million who voted for AFD in the most recent German election? Or maybe just the seventy thousand who are active members? They are surely more extreme than you or I. That’s more people than there are jail cells in Germany right now.
It is definitely far too late for this, it should’ve been done 10 years ago, but better late than never. The cancer should’ve been surgically removed when it was small, now it has grown very large and removing it means losing an arm and half a lung but that’s no reason to give up and let it overtake the rest of the body.
Those aren’t real problems. They are lies specifically meant to influence people into believing that foreigners are a problem. That is why they are antidemocratic and must be banned. There’s already plenty of official evidence from a legal standpoint. How is this so difficult to understand?
How is this so difficult to understand?
Did you even read my comment?
Let me repeat the most important part for you:
every citizen should have a right to equal representation, a right to be heard. No ifs’ and buts’ and no “but not like that” if I find their opinions unpalatable.
That is my conviction, regardless of ideology. It doesn’t matter how much you highlight what the AFD stand for, because it is fundamentally irrelevant to my opinion on the subject.
Those aren’t real problems.
Which problems?
Decreasing standard of living? Rising energy prices? High home prices? A stagnating economy?
You don’t convince someone to change ideology by saying “your problems aren’t real”. You do it by identifying the real problems, because I promise you that they exist. Then, convince them that a better solution exists than what their current ideology proposes.
When people are being brainwashed into focussing on brown people = bad, then no. Fuck that. That has nothing to do with democracy. The AfD stands for nothing other than their own gains.
And the problems you listed aren’t the things they’re addressing.
There is no reasoning. It’s pure brain washing. Don’t support that kind of shit.
And the problems you listed aren’t the things they’re addressing.
They claim to (read their party program), and they’ve convinced millions to agree regardless of how we feel about that.
There is no reasoning.
This is the easy way out, dismissing them outright, simply retreating. Without understanding and addressing their claims, however false they may be, you are fundamentally handicapped in challenging them - it is one of the key reasons that the AFD have managed to become so large in the first place.
Such rhetoric might get clamor and agreement from those who already reject their ideas, but is unlikely to convince many, if anybody in the other camp.
Look, the entire fucking country tried to find reason in this party. There is none. They’re funded by Russia and want to destabilize Europe for their own gains. It’s painfully obvious. I understand your take and to a certain extent I applaud you for it. But the AfD is very officially unconstitutional and antidemocratic. And a ban is to prevent parties like that from fucking everything up. This happened to the NPD already and it was the right thing to do.
There is no room for fascists.
Check out the concept of the tolerance paradox, it might shift your point of view a bit. Think there’s a copy pasta of a nazi bar that’s in a similar context
I’m familiar with both, and the nazi bar equivalency is a false parallell.
The antidote to anti-establishment movements in democracies (which AFD & their related parties across Europe are at this point) is strengthening public trust and legitimacy, not creating the tools to dismantle it.
I’m not a fan of killing cockroaches but I’d rather do that than let them run around the house.
That said, these particular cockroaches are everywhere now.
Ain’t it the same parliament that recently passed mass invigilation of EU citizens without a vote?
Quite the contrary. That mass surveilance was pushed through by the EU commision against the parliament that already rejected it (twice).
That mass surveilance was pushed through by the EU commision against the parliament that already rejected it (twice).
Commision and the council. Especially the most recent chat control 1.0 proposal that the parliament will vote for tomorrow (July 9)
EU ambassadors agree to push a temporary revival — unprecedented, as Parliament’s rejection was considered final. Because an expired regulation cannot be extended, the Council proposes a formally new law with identical content via an expedited procedure.
Gods, comission? What a farce.
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Fascists don’t deserve a seat at Democracies table when they would destroy Democracy if they win.
It’s really that simple, cupcake.
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