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A 4 panel comic. In the first panel, a character stands on a cliff, addressing an audience, and says “trans kids should not get puberty blockers”. In the second panel, the audience, armed and labeled “cis people”, looks content. In the third panel, the character on the cliff says “they should get hrt so they can go through the right puberty at the same time as their cis peers”. In the fourth panel, the audience, still labeled “cis people”, looks angry at the character.
if you’re cis and seeing this: keep your concern trolling to yourself.
Counter-offer: put everyone on blockers so that they can be more mentally mature when they have to deal with their hormones going apeshit. If trans kids shouldn’t make irrevocable changes to their bodies when they’re too young to fully understand the ramifications, then cis kids shouldn’t either.
I think puberty blockers should be an option for those with genuine uncertainty, but trans kids should definitely be allowed to start hrt early.
I heard someone say that puberty blockers are for the parents. Think about that a lot actually.
This is also true. At the end of the day, the kid should have 100% percent of the decision making power, being able to get HRT without their parent’s consent. On the other hand, not everybody is sure about what they want; I certainly wasn’t. I just think the option shouldn’t be taken off the table because parents pressure their kids.
It’s literally “I don’t want my kid to be trans but I don’t want to alienate them by saying that so I’m just going to put the decision off so it’s no longer my problem to worry about” IMO
Just slightly better than outright bigotry and phobia by screaming at the child they’re “wrong”
Yet another study showed regret rates are minimal, so yes. https://www.advocate.com/health/transgender-health/transition-regret-extremely-rare
It is honestly such a great example of how disingenuous liberal support of trans people is when our “rights matter,” but that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t suffer an intensely traumatic childhood for no other reason than the comfort of bigots. I can’t even begin to explain how much easier my life would have been, and so many of them do just think that’s a natural and inevitable thing that trans people have to experience and not like, an arbitrary and pointlessly cruel form of systemic violence.
waow BASED BASED BASED BASED
Also to all the cis people giving their two cents in the comments: Stop. We don’t need a cis person’s opinions on trans people’s needs. The same reason we don’t need a straight person’s opinion on gay people or a white person’s opinion on black people. Just shut the fuck up.
I’ve never understood that thinking. Well, I guess the whole point of it is the lack of thinking tbh.
Why would you not want every tool available for your kid? If blockers are what they need, they should get them. If they need different hormones than what their body is producing, they should get them. If they need different levels of what they’re producing, they should get them.
Shit, birth control pills are used for some very young people, and nobody freaks out at the fact of it. The freaking out is usually at the implication of someone very young having sex, not that the medication is useful in general.
We know that the outcomes are predictable for HRT, and that those outcomes are better when the person has access as early as medically possible (there are edge cases where delaying start allows for other medical care to occur first, but those are very rare). So what’s the big damn deal? There’s plenty of data on outcomes now. There’s plenty of data on regret now. Those rates are lower than cosmetic procedures for full adults getting them for non medical reasons (like nose jobs and facelifts, not reconstructions post injury).
It’s safe. It’s effective. It gives the highest probability of your kid, of anyone’s kid growing up as healthy as can be predicted. We know this because it is so much the majority outcome, and the drawbacks so minimal, that nobody that can be bothered to read the data could think otherwise. And it’s out there; might have to pirate some of it, but still.
It’s infuriating. The whole puberty blockers but not transition idea is so dumb. It’s so depressingly, boringly dumb.
Isnt puberty reversible with hrt for adults? The whole point of hrt is to reverse one hormone to another, even after puberty already happened?
Edit: Okay, i now understand. The problem with puberty is not that it is irreversible, but that it is difficult and expensive to deal with reversing those changes. It is important for trans kids to get required treatment, to not deal with those problems as adults, as trans adults must do.
Edit 2: I did a mistake in wording about my question in changes reversible with hrt, while i should have asked about more difficult and expensive surgeries. Also i want to mention, is that i did end up enough androgynous after puberty, to get biased towards thinking that it is not a big issue, which is not the case, as many trans people can get more severe effects of puberty, which are more difficult to deal with, both emotionally and finacially.
There are physical changes the body undergoes during puberty. They cannot be undone. HRT will cause some changes, but they won’t undo what happened.
There is also the mental piece. Forcing someone to watch their body change to be farther and farther from what they know it should be. HRT later in life doesn’t undo the mental trauma.
I understand that it is mentally traumatic for kids to grow of undesired sex, but i dont understand what is the big deal with puberty if it is reversible. What physical changes do you mean which are not reversible with hrt for adults?
Did you miss the part where I said the changes cannot be undone? As in they are irreversible? You cannot go back in time regardless of what hormones you are on.
“…transformation of the brain, bones, muscle, blood, skin, hair, breasts, and sex organs…Puberty leads to sexual dimorphism through the development of the secondary sex characteristics, which further distinguish the sexes.”
I did not miss that part, but i incorrectly worded my question. What puberty changes are irreversible, with neither hrt, medication or excercises? From my understanding, almost every part of puberty can be reversed, so that i ask you to explain which changes are actually irreversible.
Nearly all of the changes are irreversible. HRT will change your body, but will not give you the body you would have had of you went through puberty with the proper hormones. Your skeletal structure, hair growth, breast development, vocal changes, genital development, and more cannot be undone.
Something being reversible quite obviously has nothing to do with it being traumatic for years regardless. How is that hard to understand?
I do understand, i lived through it.
many effects are quite hard to reverse
- breasts: don’t magically disappear on t. needs surgery
- deep voice: doesn’t magically get much higer through e. needs voice training
- bones: barely change afaik except for pelvic tilt on e if you start it early enough. including growing/shrinking and facial bone structure. needs surgery
- body hair: gets thinner and sometimes less on e but chest and facial hair stay. needs lazer hair removal or electrolizis
- balding: only minimally reverses on e. needs hair transplants
what second puberty can achieve:
- t:
- deepening voice
- new and thicker body hair including facial hair
- fat and muscles redistribution in masculine conotated way
- balding
- increasing clitoris size
- increase skin more oily
- e:
- breast growth
- redistributing fat and muscles in feminie conotated way
- thinning body and facial hair
- stopping some balding and slightly reversing it
- slight shrinking
- pelvic tilting
- make skin softer and less oily
i might have missed some things and of course everyones mileage may varie.
some aspects of first puberty can’t be reversed using hrt and they often are both used to invalidate trans people and can cause a lot of dysphoria. it’s why many trans people who get to medically transition are still quite unhappy.
As you said, those changes are hard to reverse, but they are reversible. And while bone structure does not change, and even after finfing out about it, i still dont understand in what way bone structure matters for trans people?
you are shifting the goal post now.
much of this reversing does not come from hrt as u initially claimed but from hard work and expensive as well as sometimes life threatening surgeries. it should absolutely be avoided if possible.
bones do not have to be a big deal if one is as lucky to get androgynous bones out of first puberty, or has a very excepting environment which does not care about these things and one does themselves not care much about them either. but in many cases trans people are as unlucky to end up with bones making them noticably larger/broader or shorter than the norm for their gender or with pronounced facial bones which despite fat redistribution and makeup cause them to be read as a gender that they are not. this can be extremely dysphoria inducing and make them more likely targets for harassment.
the way to change this (if there even is one) is through painful, dangerous, and very expensive surgeries. full facial feminization surgery for example will cost as much as 50k and is often not covered by insurance as well as often requiring people to travel to travel to foreign countries. this is not an option for many people. even if health insurance covered this, it would still be a giant pain and come with risks. there is no reason to not let people chose for themselves and avoid this situation in more cases.
Thanks for explanation. I did a real mistake in incorrectly wording my question about changes reversible with hrt, instead of asking what changes must be done with difficult and expensive surgeries. Also, i did end up enough androgynous after puberty to get biased towards not thinking that it might have much more severe effects for other transgender people.
At this point I’m my life I’m almost just half resigned to call myself a bitch with a beard. It’s overwhelming to think about all the aspects at 43 and all the challenges of starting some kind of hrt. They gave me so much therapy and medication in my youth, not much I was agreeable with or seemed to be incredibly helpful. I sometimes wonder how my life had been if they took into account inquiring about my identity, and we all had a break through at a session, and tried some blockers or hrt or something. I also wonder how much of my psychological state of affairs is a symptom of a life of not realizing exactly how repressed I was. It’s like they threw everything else at the wall hoping it would stick, but not once did anyone ever even think to touch base and explore that maybe the symptoms they wanted to help me with were a result of some kind of gender dysphoric identity crisis I didn’t necessarily comprehend I was in the midst of.
Like looking back now. I’m like fuck. There was probably a lot of telltale signs in my eyes. It was like I’m the obviously gay friend that’s coming out to current self and, in my self is like yeah I figured. And then my past self is shocked. Like how did you know. I would have thought some adults would have noticed something. But it’s like here. Takes him speed and some antidepressants bub.
What you’re describing is yet another form of violence that these sorts of practices inflict, which is the refusal of self-recognition to trans/gnc people. This is a very common thing, and understandably so, because being forced to be cis when you aren’t is incredibly traumatizing and harmful to one’s mental health. Every disorder I have, I exhibit symptoms as a woman, and always have, which meant that I wasn’t diagnosed with major learning disabilities at a young age because I didn’t show symptoms that matched my gender at birth. Cumulative negative health effects are a major problem for trans people who so often experience depression, anxiety, and PTSD alongside negative effects from not only being refused gender-affirming care, but also even the self-understanding to recognize who they are and what they need.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with that, and it is important to remember that it is never too late. I also started when I was older, and I’m being serious, I felt happy for the first time in my life within two weeks of starting HRT. I didn’t even realize that I had been experiencing derealization for most of my life until I was on HRT long enough to actually feel connected to my body and the world around me. That isn’t the case with everyone – and please do not think it hasn’t worked for you if you start and don’t feel “fixed” after two weeks – but I point this out because I also spent a very long time knowing I was trans and thinking I didn’t need the HRT, or that I didn’t need to make a big deal out of it, but a few injections was all it took to start healing from decades of trauma. Hope you get whatever you need.
I just… I don’t have a horse in this race. I’m a cis dude. This should just be between some other family and their doctors/therapists to decide what’s best.
![[CW: Transphobia] hot take: trans kids should have normal childhoods, actually](https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/eb280989-bc26-4156-aeb8-c1dc4c15465d.webp){kind=link}