Portal would fail due to being placed on moving object
Except for that one section in Portal 2 /s
Why the
/s?It’s true. Obviously it makes for simpler puzzle design plus was easier to ignore the full capability (even the version in 2 seems to just work enough to allow the set-piece), so it seems silly to use developer limitation as a gotcha.
It needs to be 2. Otherwise all the people will materialize inside eachother. In fact, everyone will be deposited onto the 2-dimensional pane of the blue portal itself, like an infinitely thing coat of paint, absolutely smearing them.
Think about it. As your fingertips enter the orange portal, they materialize at the entrance of the blue portal. Then your wrist enters the orange portal, where does it materialize at the blue portal?
- If your fingers shift to make room, then that has imparted momentum and it’s option B.
- If you continue to materialize on the other side of the portal like a mirror image, then for all intents and purposes the blue portal is also moving at the same speed as the orange portal, even if orange ring appears still.
- If your fingertips don’t have momentum and your wrist materializes at the portal, then your wrist is occupying the same space as your fingertips. Congratulations, you’re now a paste.
For whatever reason I feel more willing to break conservation of momentum than I am to
Good explanation.
This has the interesting implication that the relative speed between the portals is “added” to whatever goes through it.
Example: the blue portal is on a train running with the same speed in opposite direction. The people-bundle would instantaneously be accelerated to twice the speed of each of the trains. (This becomes a real headscratcher if you were able to put the portals in a particle accelerator)
Speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out
E: I was just quoting GladOS… Not really thinking about the actual physics!
Yeah but the thing isn’t moving the portal is, and the energy has to come from somewhere if the portal makes the thing go fast.
The energy would come from the trolley. The people would launch out at approximately the same speed as the trolley interacts with them and the trolley would slow down in response to how much kinetic energy was transferred to the people.
This is correct. The motion of the people is relative to the Portal. It doesn’t matter if the trolley is accelerating the Portal towards them or something is accelerating them towards the Portal. Therefore they accelerate out of the other side with some retained momentum. Technically it probably resembles something in between pictures A and B.
This reminds me of the experiment about whether an airplane could take off from a treadmill.
Only if you assume the people will experience friction against the portal.
If they would accelerate to the speed of the train within the time it takes them to go through it, they’d experience very high pressure change against the due to one part of body accelerating faster than the other. This would cause the bodies to explode out the portal
Yes, as I noted elsewhere in the thread, the part of the body exiting the portal will experience inertia as it enters into the space outside the second portal and it will be forcefully pushed by the next part of the body heading into the first portal and thus imparting momentum to the parts ahead.
If this momentum has to be taken from anywhere its from the portal itself and by extension the train.
The energy would come from the trolley.
Has the trolley come to a complete halt, or even showed down? If not, then either no energy has been transferred to the people and they just flop out, or we’ve just invented perpetual motion.
Now you’re thinking with
portalsphysics!
This guy is thinking with portals!
No moving objects are entering… lol
Then they can’t enter at all and have to be flattened by the portal, because they must have motion too exit the other portal
B. Since there is relative velocity between the orange portal and the target, the momentum is conserved and they will launch.
The only way B is correct is if the people are launched as a pink paste from the forces resulting from the instant acceleration, and if the trolley also at least slows
Launched with a little more entropy.
In simpler terms, speedy thing goes in, speedy thing comes out
B. Velocity is relative.
but relative to what? assuming portals work similarly to windows, if I take a hoop/window and place it quickly over an object, that object won’t launch in the opposite direction
If you strap a camera to the window, it will appear as if the object launches from the camera’s perspective.
Can portals exist on a moving object?
Not in the regular game, there are mods/fan games that allow it though.
There is one segment in Portal 2 where you need to cut some tubes that transport neurotoxin, and for that small segment only, the game allows moving portals. https://youtu.be/OrAHvenjZpA
it’s specifically scripted for that though, normally the engine just freaks out
ITT: what I expected vs what I got
I believe it should be A. People aren’t moving, and the portal doesn’t carry momentum. At most people would be appearing on the other side with very little delay between eachother resulting in the most recently teleported person violently pushing away the last one.
B for sure. Consider a long pole (stationary relative to the track) entering the portal at the front of the trolley, it would leave the portal at the speed the trolley is moving.
i still can’t believe people think it’s A
Do you even portal, bro?
Unfortunately, this isn’t testable in Portal because portals can’t be affixed to moving surfaces.
I would assume the people just plop out fine since they would retain their momentum (which is nil), and the portal’s own momentum wouldn’t be applied to them. But God damn it I wish I could just make a Portal map with a moving portal and see.
If we assume local relativity, their momentum, which would then be relative to the orange portal (the one which they will interact with), wouldn’t be “nil”. It is pretty clear to me that both portals have different relativities, and therefore, would clearly lead to case B.
Then I could imagine a sport where you have a racquet with a portal on it, and you swipe at a suspended ball, with a target somewhere beyond the other portal.
Think of a portal like a doorway or just a frame of one. Stepping through it seamlessly puts you on the other side. If you were standing still, and the door went around you, would any force be exerted upon you, causing you to move? That’s why I think it would be A. Nothing is applying any force to you, you’re just basically teleporting. You may not even actually fully emerge from the portal, being trapped on the threshold, since no force is moving you beyond the point where the two ends meet.
No, a doorway means the two portals don’t move relatively to each other. Which is clearly not the case here.
Trouble is even if you could, all that would show is what would happen under the developer’s implementation of the concept in their simulation, not what would happen if portals were real and you tried this which is really the spirit of the question.
EDIT: Actually mate, if you want to know what the game does with it, looks like a few people actually managed to experiment with this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S85nudR6D-Y ages back. Disappointing result, again it just shows what the game would do though.
B.
Speedy thing goes in. Speedy thing comes out.
Although it kind of depends how fast the tram is going.
There’s a reason why in the game you could never put a portal on a moving surface
This platform deserves a community solely dedicated to trolley memes.
Discussed this with some friends and the view we came to is that your momentum relative to both the portal and your surroundings is preserved (which explains how you could portal to the moon and not get liquefied by the difference in rotational momentum between earth and the moon). The portal speeds you up or slows you down depending on local conditions on the other side to preserve your relative momentum. This would, logically, indicate that energy is created or destroyed depending on the difference, which (to me) means that ‘portals’ technically exist outside our universe as a concept and are therefore not subject to conservation of energy.