- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
Context: https://literature.cafe/post/987996
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You can look into Cloudflare’s CSAM setting, but I’m not exactly sure what it does.
I don’t understand how a web host is legally responsible for what their users post as long as there’s active moderation removing it in a timely manner.
You are correct, there is safe harbor provisions on the matter. There is a legal responsibility to report and store the content securely when it is reported as an admin.
It’s like it’s not enough that you deal with all the technical shit, updating to new versions, checking shit out from GitHub, running builds, paying for the goddamn thing, then you are also responsible for babysitting content? Fuck that. Unless you have a good group of mods/admins it is really difficult to do.
keep in mind that this does not apply to every country in the world.
FYI in USA the law CDA section 230 only preempts state law but not federal law. If something which is federally illegal lands on your server you need to deal with it ASAP
I would love to have the EFF chime in, but there are some protections for you as a host under the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act (OCILLA) - or safe harbor provision in the USA.
As to how that has been tested legally on federated content, I don’t know. Perhaps another elder of the internet can tell me how Usenet servers handle it.
You are right, there is safe harbor protections here. It’s a legal mess that must be navigated carefully. We will see how things progress.
While correct, you still may end up having to deal with the law about it. The whole “you can’t beat the ride” thing. Could be a ton of hassle and legal fees.
What are you implying here? That @gabe should never have bothered with running a server? What about the server you are connected to right now? Should they shut down because of what may travel across it?
No.
They’re protected under the same rules as somebody running a WiFi hotspot at a coffee shop. As long as they are doing everything within reason to be a good steward of their local network (which is what Gabe is doing) then they are protected.
Doesn’t seem like he was implying anything. Just stating the fact that part of the burden of citizenship is sometimes having to interact with law enforcement, maybe even go to trial, even if you’ve done nothing wrong.
Pretty eloquent way of saying what I was trying to express. Thanks
I’m not suggesting anyone should or shouldn’t do anything, nor that I’m not grateful for people that do. Just saying it’s a potential downside that people should seriously consider before hosting any public access systems.
They’re protected under the same rules as somebody running a WiFi hotspot at a coffee shop. As long as they are doing everything within reason to be a good steward of their local network (which is what Gabe is doing) then they are protected
Hopefully, yeah. But again, there’s still this potential of the coffee shop of having all their equipment seized and having to deal with a law enforcement investigation and maybe even the courts. Even if the risk of actual jail time and monetary penalties is low, it’s something people should consider before doing it.
This is one of the reasons I’m not running a public access network or TOR exit node at home even if I think those are worthwhile things to do.
FYI not all jurisdictions deal with website hosting (storage and distribution) as equivalent to hotspot/ internet services (dumb relay)
This is the reason that vlemmy.net shutdown.
Here I thought I could create a server and then use that as a instance only to hold my profile where I could then use that to interact across the fediverse
You can absolutely do that, just make the profile registration private
But the federation issue with CSAM… I don’t want those issues.
deleted by creator
Yes, but people can still browse content from your instance without logging in. There is nothing stopping people from viewing illegal material through your instance.
Section 230 makes this but an issue. It would be like suing the phone company. Especially if you don’t moderate. If you moderate then it can be said what is left had your endorsement. If you don’t moderate, then you are simply a victim of vandalism.
Section 230 is only applicable to the US
Free countries have an equivalent, or else free online discussion space would be impossible. The section 230 compromise is inevitable or the internet would perish.
Ok, I think I might be misunderstanding the issue; so it’s more of bad actors rather than a copy of images in cache?
Is there some guide to it? I was thinking the same!
Yeah I have wanted that from day one. I want it to work like mail my identity on my domain that I can bring anywhere, store my comments, posts, subscriptions and that’s it, maybe direct messages or explicitly saved posts. Not every damn post that I read / subscribe.
This kind of issue is why pawb.social is not open registration. These low effort trolls cause a lot of problems, and i don’t want my server to be responsible for this crap.
Doesn’t matter, you are still effected by this issue since any images from communities you or anyone else on your instance follows get cached on your server, doesn’t matter if you actually looked at them or not. I would advise you to look into this if you are the instance admin and didn’t know this by now.
Correct! I should have specified I mean to prevent our community from being the source of the posts.
Don’t have open signups
I thought it says/should say SCAM. Boy was I wrong…
Wait are images federated too? Can’t u disable it?
I think only links to the images are federated.
EDIT: I am from the programming.dev instance, and this post links to https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/22411ac1-3f76-4904-9f0e-8522311c4ee1.jpeg which seems to come from lemmy.ca and not lemmy.ml where this community is originally from.
Maybe it was cross posted? Not sure.
The thumbnails are hosted on your home instance.
And the content itself? And it’s hosted on the home instance of the uploader or on every home instance and then served to their own users from that one?
It’s just hosted on their home instance. If all the content would be synced, it would be impossible to set up smaller and personal instanced without massive storage capacities.
I see, thanks for the explanation.
Maybe Mozilla could help. I know they’re trying to help make the net less of s toxic place and this is some serious thing.
My guess is that someone noticed that Lemmy doesn’t yet have as robust moderation tools as Mastodon and decided they’d federate "NoNoNo"1 images all over the place just to be a troll
1
CSAM
CP
Very illegal and naughty images of kids
I thought about hosting my own instance, but now I’m definitely not…
I thought the worst that could happen was being ignored… apparently not.
you could host your own instance and just not have new users sign up, by keeping registration private.
But if you federate with an instance that gets the material, then you will also get it.
This is what I’m thinking of doing. Lets me host my own content and not rely on other instances to stay alive.
Thankfully I was not subscribed to that community so I wasn’t hit by it, but wow it’s a bad situation. I will certainly be more wary and keep an eye on things, ready to purge any images just in case
What does CSAM exactly mean? (I understand the point of the meme completely just never heard of such abbreviation.
It’s child porn, and as horrifying as you’ve been told it is. Some scumbag trolls were posting it on lemmy.world’s memes sub and so .world finally decided to close open signups.
Bullshit, child porn is “cp”. CSAM means Child Sexual Abuse Material
What would you say is the difference? I feel like the terms are interchangeable. The comment you replied to didn’t give the exact abbreviation but it gave the essence of what is meant by the picture.
By OC trying to imply a difference, one could be led to assume that OC believes there is some part of the illegal material that they do not consider abuse.
I vehemently disagree with that line of thinking. It is abuse, and that is why it is illegal.
Who in their right mind thinks calling CP is validating it in any way? Just because some morons decided to make a politically correct term for it doesn’t change what it is.
The politically correct term CSAM is to differentiate it from ordinary porn which is legal and at least somewhat socially acceptable and ensure that people understand that when children are involved, it is always abusive. The terms mean the same thing, but being precise with language is important.
People already understand that. 🤦
That’s absurd. People aren’t stupid. We’re capable of understanding context and playing semantical games with something so serious is quite honestly pretty offensive.
When did we switch to that instead of CP?
Porn is a legal thing that normal people enjoy. The term CSAM takes a stance that it is always abuse. I think they are basically interchangeable but CSAM is the currently preferred term.
But it is always abuse regardless of the term, so a new term is wildly unnecessary
Sometimes, terms need changing to separate it from something else. Porn in itself is legal and fine. When adding children in the mix it’s easy to get caught up in the porn part of the discussion rather than the child part.
Separating the terms puts the focus more on the child abuse part.
I’ve literally not once seen anyone “get caught up in the porn part” what
Have you been paying attention to the debate at all?
Many bills in the US have been proposed to mitigate child porn by just targeting porn in general.
Why are you opposed to using terms that are accurate?
Never heard of Section 230?
Doesn’t preempt federal law, only state law
If you are the only one using it , and you don’t federate with a instance like that then that its not going to happen.
What happens if someone decides to subscribe to a seemingly innocent community that later becomes a target for such content to be posted? Because that’s precisely what happened here.
I mean this very kindly, but seeing that you seem to operate your own instance this very serious misunderstanding of the risks involved with hosting a lemmy instance has me deeply concerned.
Who is that someone? The only one in my instance its me and no one else. My instance only download what its post , commented and upvoted on the instances I subscribed. My instance does not download what others are subscribed on other instances. For example if I am only subscribed to the Lemmy.ml instance I only get what others post on that instance , and if a user from lemmy.ml instance subscribe to a nefarious instance doesn’t mean my instance will get all those nefarious post because I am not federated with that nefarious instance.
But that’s not how these things always work. People will post offending content in seemingly innocuous communities to cause as much destruction as possible.
I understand now I apologized for my previous stupid comments. I was not subscribed to the community that posted that so I think I am good. I am sorry again , I spoke out of ignorance didn’t know what had happened.
It’s OK. I am deeply disappointed it is now public information, but it is what it is.
Someone could potentially decide to post something like that in a memes community to cause trouble, which would be worrying for a self-hoster like me. My instance isn’t subscribed to anything remotely sketchy, so it sounds like I’m unaffected here, but it could happen.Ignore the previous, that’s literally what they did. I went in and manually purged it from the command line by removing every image from the last 24 hours. For other lemmy admins wanting to do the same (assuming a standard docker setup):
sudo find /srv/lemmy/example.com/volumes/pictrs/files -type f -ctime -1 -exec shred {} \;Thanks, haven’t been on my instance for a few weeks and I come back to this shit show. Bye bye memes of the last two (just to be sure) days. I wonder how I can even prevent that shit from happening again.
This will happen again. We need better moderation tools
There’s services which filter that for you, which you can add to your posting pipeline. Somebody already mentioned cloudflare’s variant
You need to use shred instead of rm. If you use rm the data still lives on your drive until it gets overwritten
I made dedicated posts about it and corrected the mistake there, I missed this comment. Thanks for pointing it out.
