A few examples include s*x questions on askreddit, “this” comments, nolife powermods, jokes being more frequent than actual answers
Allowing racists and fascists a seat at the table under the guise of ‘fairness’ or ‘free speech’. Reddit became polluted with far-right astroturfing in the last six years.
It is not tolerance to welcome those persons who seek to harm you.
We cannot tolerate intolerance.
In the last 6 years? If anything, reddit got less tolerant of the far right since inception, it just became a bigger deal when they banned them in the last 6 years
You believe what you want to. Nothing I say is going to convince you, random internet person.
I had used reddit since the near beginning, and over time the prevalence of ‘alternative facts’ and other right-wing narratives has risen sharply. You also have communities like r/conservative that participate in open calls to violence and perpetuate right wing dogwhistles for maximum rage bait. The sheer slide of r/politicalcompassmemes going from people role-playing different ideologies to thinly-veiled alt-right propaganda speaks to this shift.
Catering to conservatives and right wing players results in the enshittification of the website.
I think that generally the internet got more of those types of people and they got louder, reddit used to have subreddits whose names were just slurs or subreddits blatantly dedicated to racism. The idea of a “dogwhistle” on reddit didn’t exist because the racists just said and did racist things without fear of being banned.
Yeah, you’re both right. There’s less outright hate now, but more propaganda.
Political Compass Memes is the Fox News version of fair and balanced. It’s intended to convert people with a thin veil of “both sides”. And that thin veil will be enough for a lot of impressionable kids.
I think that’s kind of the point, isn’t it? Reddit used to have those actual subreddits, then they were closed and all those users went… To the rest of reddit. They’re not going to leave because their hate sub was closed, now they’re just going to participate more everywhere else.
For what it’s worth, I think it’s basically been the same amount the whole time and like you said just became more acceptable to be more open leading up to and after 2016.
The sheer slide of r/politicalcompassmemes going from people role-playing different ideologies
Lol I had NO idea that was the original intent… I just knew it was one of them subs I stayed far away from.
- Juno ( @Juno@beehaw.org ) 3•1 year ago
Don’t forget r/redpill and the Andrew tate crowd
Well yeah, to continue with the fire metaphor, it’s hard to put out a fire once you’ve already let it get out of hand. PLENTY of people were warning about those communities before they grew into the mob that stormed the capital, for example. Reddit only stepped in and did something about them when it became a bad look for them to let them keep shitting on the lawn.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 2•1 year ago
Then how come I kept running into them all the way until I left Reddit last month?
Reddit is infested with Nazis, and that’s a fact.
I’ll counter and say that calling anyone you disagree with a racist/fascist in order to feel superior.
That shit was rampant on Reddit and seems to be slowly creeping into Lemmy as well.
Lol never mind, I guess it’s rampant here as well.
I’ve never been called either in nearly 12 years on Reddit (and being plenty active with ~120k comment karma).
Maybe if you often get called that you should re-evaluate your opinions?
Yeah, same. I think they doth protest too much lol
You are a fascist.
It’s easy to blend in when you blindly follow the narrative.
As if there is ever one “the” narrative.
I know you think you’re being clever, but you see it in almost every front page thread on Reddit.
Your post history is public.
Not sure how you think any of those comments are some sort of gotcha.
Explain how they are racist/facist instead of just being an emotional child who follows the hive mind.
Also, like a typical Reddit user, you will dig through someone’s post history to find something to discredit them instead of having an actual point.
“dig through”. Man, your comment after this one is defending oil companies. And a few comments before is a ridiculous propaganda talking point.
There’s a very important reason post history is public. It makes this site harder to manipulate than 4chan. It’s so much easier for one actor to overpower 4chan it’s ridiculous. A Reddit operation is still certainly possible, but much more challenging.
Lol defending oil companies. You guys are ridiculous.
I guess pointing out how supply and demand works is “defending oil companies”.
I can give it a shot. This isn’t an attack, it’s me doing my best to break down why people have issues with your comment history. I hope it comes across that way.
I notice in the comments people have issues with you tend to be technically correct, but that isn’t really what matters in those conversations. Examples are the only way I can think to explain this.
Take oil companies, you point out that individual consumption (people filling up their cars) drives the burning of fossil fuels. This is correct, you are stating facts, but missing the bigger picture. The oil companies producing fossil fuels, lobbying governments, and spreading propoganda are a much bigger part of the problem than the individual consumer. In fact, it makes more sense for us as a society to seek large-scale solutions, instead of expecting millions of people to radically change their daily habits. Your comments, while technically correct, serve to put attention on the people doing less harm, a technique oil companies themselves use to disrupt conversations and make the idea of change harder to imagine. This is why people don’t like those comments.
Another example, that supreme court case that found it wasn’t discrimination to deny a specific service to a queer person, based on some reasoning that you ended up defending. Again, you are technically correct in your comments, you put a lot of effort into figuring out how to explain to others in the thread how the SC’s logic works, and why it is not discriminatory. You use examples you came up with, so I know it took some thought.
But did you think about why you were making those comments? Why is it important, in a thread where people are expressing various shades of frustration, anger, sadness at the way institutions are targetting queer people, to point out how the thing they’re mad at isn’t all that bad?
There are social forces much bigger than ourselves, these are big and complex, but the impkrtant thing now is that they operate on the coordinated activity of many individuals. Hatred of queer people is one of those social forces. That supreme court decision you were correcting people on drives the force of queer hate forward, while being caused by it. It does not matter to the bigot if this is technically discrimination, this decision will embolden them to act in bigotted ways, do you really think the average right winger is trying to stay withing the bounds of what is legal? Will the technical differences between this decision and what you would consider bigotry stem the rising tide of violence against gender non-conforming people? People in these comment sections don’t want to hear apologia for the decisions threatening their lives. That’s why they call you a facist.
I would recommend thinking about why you are posting a comment, why you are forming the nareative you are, and what the likely result of posting will be. Who do you sound like when you are posting? What does your questioning add to the conversation? I believe that with some introspection you could figure out why you feel the need to make these comments, and find a better outlet. Don’t tell people they’re wrong about things they care about unless you understand where they’re coming from, especially when those “things” are existiential threats to those peoples’ lives.
For anyone watching this thread this exact post is the kind of shit that should be left to rot in reddit
- EremesZorn ( @EremesZorn@beehaw.org ) English2•1 year ago
A post history enables accountability, which is something a lot of people severely lack.
If you take issue with being held accountable for what you say, then perhaps you need to look at what you’re posting.
I have only read the comments here and didn’t look at your post history, because I frankly don’t care enough to, but I would imagine people are assuming you do not argue or debate in good faith. That may be an incorrect assumption, for all I know, but you’ll need to make your positions more clear to people that might feel some type of way about what you’re sayin’.Jesus Christ, this isn’t high school debate club lol
Mmm, this might be a you problem.
If that’s an issue that actually affects you often enough to complain about it, maybe, uh, maybe you should, idunno, search your soul or something.
You know what they say about someone who is always complaining that every room smells like dog shit when he walks into it.
I never said people called me racist. I was a Reddit lurker. But you see it all over the place and unfortunately here too.
Such a sad way to live, constantly filled with anger and hatred.
Don’t be so quick to dismiss people’s anger. It comes from a place of their own truth. They probably have a good reason for it. Acknowledge the truth first and then address the complaint.
I’ll give you that, but it unfortunately leads to a lot of prejudice and antisocial behavior.
My comment is a perfect example. All I said was that people shouldn’t call others facist/racist, and that was all it took for everyone to assume that I am.
I’ll grant that it is often used as a thought-terminating cliché, and we should all be judicious it its use. But sometimes you just call something what it is.
And 90% of the time it is exactly that.
Everyone should familiarize themselves with the paradox of tolerance if they haven’t already.
I’d say people worrying about Karma.
this /s
I get the objective need for the /s in this particular context, but we absolutely should add “using /s when the sarcasm should be obvious for anyone with basic reading comprehension skills” to the list
As someone who is incredibly tone deaf in written conversation, please don’t get rid of the /s. It really does help
I second this. Text is notoriously difficult to communicate tone through, and textual shorthands like /s really do help to clear some of the possible confusion. It’s a similar reason to why satire is so hard to do in text.
I don’t agree,
/sis immensely useful for neurodivergent people, some of which cannot recognize sarcasm at all.Also, really often something that is “obvious sarcasm” for you is a genuinely held belief by someone online. Nothing is too ridiculous for the internet
Maybe internet forums aren’t the best place for people that can’t recognize context.
Why should we exclude neurodiverse people from a space when it’s easy enough to make it accessible?
Apparently reddit and lemmy are the only places they socialize, so whatever.
No but they’re here (and we should be being as inclusive as possible if we want Lemmy to be successful), so it makes no sense to shut the doors on them just because a couple of people don’t like seeing /s .
Do you active dislike neurodiverse people or you just prefer to surround you only with people you can relate to?
Just because you don’t care about certain groups of people who are not actively damaging for the world, that doesn’t mean that they should be excluded from here.
Sadly, I understand your point, but feel that I need to remind you of Poe’s Law. I think the /s is required because shit is all too real
I’d often use it on Reddit in political discussions where I didn’t want to be mistaken for someone who actually held the views I was mocking. There were just enough of those folks popping in and out and it would be easy to mistake my sarcasm for a genuine belief. Ruining the joke with /s was better than being mistaken for someone with awful views.
HARD disagree. Tone can easily be lost through text, indicators like that can be very very needed. Especially accessibility for people who are neurodivergent who already have difficulties with that. But on top of that you have terrible people online who actually believe in the things we might be sarcastic about so without the /s people might assume you’re serious and just a horrible person.
There is nothing wrong in adopting language that makes our messaging more clear and accessible.
Even the /s I wouldn’t bring it here
Or at least revert it to its original markdown format.
<s> like this </s>
karma (or upvotes-downvotes aka simple karma) shouldn’t be a reason to disallow someone from using a lemmy community
I don’t know what form of karma Wander meant, but for me the “global karma” numbers are the worst part of reddit. People constantly posting stupid things or self-censoring to try to make number go up.
I never thought about that, but with your global karma comment I think community karma might not be a bad idea. You could see which communities a person has good standing with, which ones they barely visit, and which ones they might cause issues on. It could say a lot about how a user operates and their views are a very quick glance. I kinda like that idea.
Requiring minimum positive karma is stupid when it can be gamed so easily.
Someone with very negative karma is likely a troll.
This
- fugepe ( @fugepe@lemmy.ml ) 4•1 year ago
upvoted to give you more karma
Is there even a total karma counter anywhere at all?
Not on Lemmy but there is on kbin (it’s called “reputation”, I think). I’m hoping it doesn’t get implemented here, but I guess we can see if it negatively affects kbin content as we’ve got a direct comparison.
What exactly was the karma problem? I never saw it being a huge issue
It becomes an issue if you imagine people on social media do what they do for karma in the same way people in real life do what they do for money.
In other words, if you have a deficient or extremely narrow theory of mind, you will think karna is the cause of everything
We literally can’t downvote on beehaw lol
Censoring inoffensive words like sex.
Yes, thank you. Excessive prudishness and self censoring is always an indicator to me that a community is going a weird direction.
In the last year I started noticing on Reddit people typing the ‘letter’-word and half the time I wouldn’t know what word they are referring to.
On a couple occasions I would reply asking what word they meant and they would reply that I should know, with my comment downvoted.
That reminds me of another thing I was sick of seeing, people asking a question and getting told to google it or that lmgtfy link. You would later see people in the comments mentioning that Google took them there when Googling for it.
But why clutter up a comment section asking questions you could answer with thirty seconds on a search engine? I understand the annoyance. You shouldn’t rely on other people to educate you on things that literally anyone with internet can find out with very little effort.
If it’s relevant to the discussion, that’s different, but too often it just sidetracks things.
Google is the band aid word for search engine. I’m sorry but if you don’t understand how to use a search engine maybe you… Idk shouldn’t be using the internet.
You obviously know how to scroll down the page on a forum like Reddit and here, but when seeing search results you’re somehow suddenly helpless?
Come on.
I’ve been amazed at how much “profanity” I’ve seen on Lemmy “all” page already… 6 hours in
Reddit became too America focused. Most of the posts were about America or assumed everyone reading was American. It felt very exclusionary.
I think this will remain a problem on any platform that includes enough Americans. The general public in America just seems unaware of anything outside America.
I think this stems from their education system, what they (don’t) broadcast on mass-media and how normal and even laudable they consider fanatical nationalism to be (did you know they require children to swear devotion to the nation state every day at school!?).
In any case, I don’t think this is a problem that any platform that wants to include Americans can avoid.
I saw this complaint on reddit a lot, but at the end of the day, it was a US based site. Of course there will be mostly Americans and they will default to that understanding.
Also, the US is a large country. It’s not like Europe where you’re a day trip away from 5 other countries. Most Americans can’t afford travel outside the US, so they only have exposure to the many cultures within the US.
The hate Americans get for not catering discussion on a US based site to the global community is really what’s strange.
My other irk is the next group that assumes everyone who isn’t American must be from Europe.
Europe was just an example, though they do tend to be the most unjustly hateful of Americans.
The hate Americans get for not catering discussion on a US based site to the global community is really what’s strange.
I just want y’all to stop saying shit like “oh xyz is like 20$ right now” like it’s just as cheap everywhere else in the world.
Thanks for your 2 cents.
This comment itself is ironically filled with American exceptionalism mythology.
I’m curious, which part is a myth? I only see facts and not all of them paint America as great.
These things exist elsewhere, besides. Just not always in “the West.”
Americans size doesn’t excuse their ignorance and a lot of other countries don’t believe they are the only country the way americans do.
Let me simplify this. Would you go to a forum with an address in .ar and complain that the discussion doesn’t pertain to you? You wouldn’t, but you are just blindly hateful of Americans for whatever reason.
Fine if you want your websites to be an american echo chamber you do you. Thats what you want not me and thats not what sites you probably claim to be american advertise themselves as either.
America is far from a monolith. Our states roughly equate to different European countries with vastly different cultures, foods, rights and laws.
We just speak dialects that are almost all the same and roll up under one political entity. It is not so dissimilar than the EU, otherwise.
We are, in many practical terms a forced confederation with a shared Constitution. There are those, like in the EU, who want out.
Edit: the shared single language is one of our under-recognized super-powers. I can travel this huge land mass and communicate viably everywhere. It is key to our cultural impact. It is accidental, but helpful to us. Except when we have people who dislike our impact and become hostile.
Which Americans are you talking to? We know there are other countries and cultures. We just aren’t responsible for learning deeply about all of them. No one is.
You’re using some strong, broad strokes that aren’t reflective of my experience at all.
You should learn about experiences outside your own that you are not is not a good thing.
The above is one example.
You don’t have a high ground, here.
I am learning those things… hell, I’m studying a completely different language and learning the history.
I think I’m not who you think I am.
Most Americans can’t afford travel outside the US, so they only have exposure to the many cultures within the US.
You can travel in a straight line over land 2700 miles from Washington to Florida without leaving the United States. Make a foray into Canada and you can travel a 4300 mile long straight line from Alaska to Florida without leaving a country that speaks majority English.
I haven’t heard that before, but yeah, the US is huge.
You can meet many different people as well along the way. The culture of the major cities vs the rural mid west is like traveling to a different country. I like to make the joke that the USA is just many countries disguised as one country in a trench coat.
I appreciate that. What bugs me is when people don’t read the name of the sub they’re in though - if it’s askUK or casualuk then maybe it’s not the place to talk about America, particularly when it’s an advice thread about laws for example.
Just some self awareness would be good.
Well I think ideally that’s what different instances should help. I’m on a Canadian instance with a lot of Canadian specific communities. I’ve seen instances of many other specific countries. That should theoretically counter that whole experience on Reddit
Lemmy.ca is full of em!
Which honestly has been one of my favourite features of Lemmy so far. I can browse All to see what everyone is talking about, I can browse Subscribed to see what I care about and I can browse Local to see what Canadians care about.
That’s just a demographics game. Most reddit users live in the US.
It’s also a company that’s based on the US.
And the arrogance about it was unbelievable, it was extremely common behaviour.
But that were some good opportunities to dunk on the world epicenter, i’ve always took them
Not just frequent jokes, but those annoying ever-repeating jokes. Like as if 80% of users were the same person. Before opening any post on Reddit, there is a good chance to be able to correctly predict the exact content of a significant portion of the comments. I get that it can be funny to an individual to come across stuff like “I also choose this guys wife” or “And my axe” more than once. But for people like me, who did not just start using the website, it is really annoying to come across the same jokes literally hundreds of times.
This goes hand in hand with the general idea of a “Reddit hivemind”. Depending on the subs you visit, you can see that Reddits userbase is actually really diverse. There are people from every demographic with all kinds of different life experiences. But in a lot of subs, anytime a woman is mentioned there is a flood of people acting like as if there are no women on the internet and as if no person using Reddit could have a girlfriend. Again, I get that it can be funny once or twice. But when the idea that every user must be a typical “Redditor” gets repeated all the time it’s just annoying. Needless to say that I don’t look forward to being called a “Lemming” on this site.
Also, repeating comments on the same post. Obviously you don’t have to read all the comments if there are already hundreds of them. But if there are too many comments saying the exact same thing it just gets harder to read them all. So it would be nice if people would look whether the point they want to make maybe has been made already. They can increase that comment’s visibility by upvoting. No need to make other people read the same content multiple times and by that make it harder to read different comments.
This, 11/10 would upvote again, just fucking take my upvote, btw is your wife single by any chance?
And my axe!
Thanks for the gold kind stranger!
Happy cake day!
Take my upvote /s
I also choose that guy’s waifu body pillow (obviously women aren’t real)
Woman on the Internet? Nice try, FBI
The old Lemmy switcheroo!
Hold my lemmings, I’m going in!
And my axe.
And people immediately repeat the same patterns without understanding where they come from.
First, the difference is negligible between doing something ironically and just doing it. The “ironic” part stays with it, but becomes irrelevant almost immediately. The “/s” needs to exist for a similar reason. Generally it’s just better to not make the /s comment at all, but if you’re going to it should have the /s.
Second, if you have a couple hundred people read something and think the same response, one of them is probably going to type it.
Changing these things requires a culture shift where we encourage people to think about their comment adding something original rather than the first thing that comes to mind. You have to attack that root problem instead of the symptoms. Is it worth the effort?
First, the difference is negligible between doing something ironically and just doing it.
You get to feel superior to people who ~don’t get it~ and think you’re being unironic. That’s really it.
Also, repeating comments on the same post. Obviously you don’t have to read all the comments if there are already hundreds of them. But if there are too many comments saying the exact same thing it just gets harder to read them all. So it would be nice if people would look whether the point they want to make maybe has been made already. They can increase that comment’s visibility by upvoting. No need to make other people read the same content multiple times and by that make it harder to read different comments.
This may be a little bit of an issue here as small instances (or frequently defederated instances) may not be aware of replies made on older comments. To see the whole reply chain of a comment you need to click the fediverse button (the rainbow star thingy on Lemmy web) and read the source. If people don’t do that they may legitimately not know that someone has replied with the exact thing they were about to reply with.
I feel like I wouldnt even mind the obvious low hanging jokes if they werent upvoted above any actual relevant discussion about the link or post. And it wouldnt be just the one post on the top I could minimize throughout, it would be posted a lot throughout the thread. I can almost forgive the early comers who came in and rushed to get the joke in first and got it around the same time, but there’d be threads up for minutes to hours and as you scroll down you’d get the repeats. Like I dunno man maybe take 2 seconds to glance at the comments to make sure you’re HILARIOUS post hasnt been made already.
Then again it’s very possible a large chunk of these might be actual bots hence the lack of any sort of awareness of surroundings.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 62•1 year ago
Nazis. Reddit has so many Nazis.
I hate Reddit nazis.
Well, they are a significant minority.
They’re in the god damn admin team, FFS.
Yikes
What is the proof that an admin is a nazi? What? First I’ve heard of it. Searching for it brings up no results.
Why are we taking what a stranger, who we know nothing about, word at face value? lol.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 2•1 year ago
Not on Beehaw, they aren’t, and that’s how I like it.
I may be confused by your wording but it seems like you are saying Nazis are prevalent on Beehaw. Is that your goal?
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 1•1 year ago
I mean they’re not a minority here because they’re not here at all.
Well good! That is my feeling too I just misunderstood.
I think the whole “no life mods” thing got a bit overblown. Reddit communities flourished generally due to the ones that had good active moderation. Setting a consistent theme and tone for the subreddit and keeping the bad actors out. It takes a lot of work, they did it for free and we benefited.
The issue is when some people are mods for tons of major communities. That’s when it is overreaching.
/r/askhistorians had very strict mods and was better for it.
yup. Good moderation makes or breaks the community.
Agreed but I do think that’s because the nature of the sub was more academic though, so having some kind of rigor makes sense. Not sure that’s the model to follow for every community
Almost every time I saw someone complaining about the mods, I would take a gander at their comment history, and surprise surprise it was almost always full of edgelord shit.
Ragebait. It’s boring and pointless, and it brings out the worst in everyone. I never understood the appeal of being a “troll” though, so idk.
Something else I don’t miss, and maybe this is a little more personal, but often when I would try to participate in a conversation, my comment would get auto-removed for some rule/etiquette based reason I could never really wrap my head around. Like, derailing? I thought I knew what that meant, but had comments removed when I was like, “yeah that answer really resonates with me too! My 123 is xyz.”
Lemmy so far has been much more welcoming to the neurodiverse and I appreciate the organic, freeflowing nature of conversation here.
Obviously, if someone’s being provocatively hateful / an obvious troll, then nuke 'em.
But if people are just trying to join in on the conversation, don’t be a pedantic dick about exactly what kind of conversation is allowed. It had gotten to the point where I was afraid to comment at all for fear I’d be doing it wrong.
Why the hell is everyone against questions about sex? Are y’all prudes? There is already a serious lack of discussion about sex in this country to where online forums are the best place you can have such a discussion.
There are “questions about sex” and there are “men/women of reddit/lemmy, what’s the sexiest sex you ever sexed” being repeated every other day like on r/askreddit. I assume nobody would reject the occasional insightful sex questions.
A huge annoyance was that there was already subs for asking sex questions but people found it easier to karma farm in the main ones so they were barely used. Hopefully without karma here that will be avoided.
And unless those posts were tagged with [Serious] they were plagued with the same unoriginal comments mentioned elsewhere in this thread.
Calling communities “master race” as in /r/pcmasterrace
Lol everyone should go read the couple of posts on the community / magazine with the same name. Hilarious seeing people so triggered by people pointing out that the name is a bit problematic.
IIRC, it started of as a joke and an explicit nazi reference to make fun of PC gaming fanboys, and then they just embraced it without understanding the context?
It was supposed to be a shitposting sub and in that context the stupid name makes sense, but it kinda morphed into a pc community that was meme-centric.
The usual cycle of edgy jokes. They start off as mocking a group of bad actors, then those same bad actors miss the joke and take on the term for themselves without irony.
the origin is this exact video: https://youtu.be/P0dXtOVi2yo
There was a second factor in its creation that most people have forgotten, involving a power-tripping mod on /r/gaming. People were posting their gaming setups (both consoles and PCs) when one mod decided to ban all pictures of gaming PCs for a very stupid reason. So PCMR got a lot of initial subscribers from leaving the “dirty console peasants” behind, with that mod’s stupidity held up as a representative of the console community. Hence the joke, especially the “superiority” jokes.
The sub was created specifically because of the joke. It’s always been a joke. Who honestly believes that which system you choose to game on is a genetic or racial trait anyways? It’s a ridiculously exaggerated take on the “console wars.”
Yeah, that’s, uh, kinda problematic, eh?
The alternative realities allowed to exist in conservative or republican groups/communities.
I severely wish for this to not happen here. But I’m not naive, conservatives always follow and then start to destruct what others have created.
I think it’s far more likely that there will be more of this. Lemmy instances already exist for various extreme political views. They might not be federated with the instance you’re using, but they definitely exist.
The nature of the fediverse, with no centralized control or oversight, will produce more such communities, not less.
Honestly, as long as they stay insulated from the rest of the fediverse, it’s not really any different than them spinning up a forum somewhere. It’s going to be a challenge for them to reach new people to warp to their worldview if they are largely kept away from everyone else.
And sure they might lurk in alt accounts to try their recruitment that way in the rest of the fediverse, but I feel like if it won’t be a default to be exposed to the rhetoric (like Reddit) all the time on most servers, since the vast majority aren’t going to want to connect to them, it will come across to potential recruits as exactly how extreme it actually is.
This is definitely a strength of federation.
Want to get rid of right wing communities and their fascist members? Defederate with the instances that host them.
Want to get rid of left wing communities and their commie members? Defederate with the instances that host them.
Want to get rid of hate communities and their toxic members? Defederate with the instances that host them.
You don’t need to competely close communities, you can just let people have those discussions in their own space, as should be their right. Centralised systems don’t really have this choice.
It’s going to be a challenge for them to reach new people to warp to their worldview if they are largely kept away from everyone else.
This only makes sense if you assume that new people would be funneled into extremist Lemmy instances from other Lemmy instances, but it’s far more likely that new people will be pointed toward such communities through other paths, and then they won’t be exposed to competing ideas.
Don’t misunderstand me - I’m not saying that hate speech, racism and sexism should be ignored or allowed to exist alongside other content on Lemmy. I am saying that trying to ignore that, separate ourselves from it, and pretend like it doesn’t exist and doesn’t affect us, is ultimately counterproductive.
they won’t be exposed to competing ideas
They wouldn’t be exposed to competing ideas if nobody defederates. They would subscribe to their own communities, where normal people would not participate, leaving only toxic ineffectual discussion.
Defederating is not ignoring the problem. It’s an active choice. It’s scooping the floaters out of the pool. It’s a clear message that bigotry is not tolerated. When they get bored of their hateful shit they can come and have manners and enjoy cat pictures with the rest of us.
I will decline being the counterpoint for this bullshit. It’s not a normal person’s responsibility to educate bigots.
One nice benefit of this method is that people who spend too much time in echo chambers eventually start sounding like raving lunatics, which hurts their credibility in the real world.
Yeah but it also means they can fester and rot in their little holes. You dont have to worry about an administration that is obsessed with free speech like its a good thing letting a colony like exploding heads in if you join the correct instance
The problem with letting things fester is that they tend to grow and get worse while they’re out of sight/out of mind, until they eventually burst out and spread toxicity everywhere.
One of the benefits of free speech is that the nasty stuff gets exposed. When it’s exposed then you at least know where it is. The only problem is if the nasty stuff doesn’t get labeled as such so it can be dealt with, and instead is treated as if it were normal and allowed to continue spreading (e.g. police turning a blind eye to far-right gun nuts intimidating voters).
Ultimately though we are only in control of our own spaces. If we control our spaces our lives get easier because of it. Knowing they exist and that the state and society as a whole is entirely disinterested in fixing that problem aside from half baked deprogramming ideas hasnt enhanced my life in any way. All i can do is carry protection from them, make sure my spaces treat them as an active threat and live my life.
Burst out where? Into another instance that can get defederated? Into a million instances? Great. Spread that userbase as thin as possible. Defederate the most annoying ones.
The nasty stuff you are talking about is straight from Fox news. That’s a failure of American broadcasting standards, that you have an “entertainment” channel holding itself up as legitimate news.
If Fox was disallowed from calling itself news years ago, you would not have these problems. If Fox was put into subscriber only TV channels, you would not have this problem.
Fox was opt-out for viewers. Make it opt-in. Make hateful instances opt -in for the users.
Pretty much. And they spilled over into everywhere else too… In Australia, absolutely nobody cares about guns. However, on Reddit, you’d think the opposite. It was fairly clear that the conference crowd were trolling the Australian subs excessively
Circlejerks / echo chambers. Do it for the discussion, not the points.
I think a place exists for communities that thrive on in jokes. They are fun to engage in sometimes.
I do agree with discussion before points, though.
I hope to see less song lyric comment chains on completely unrelated posts. Also I don’t know why, but I always hated the whole, ‘my partner, let’s call them blank (not real name)’ thing.
The thing about comment chains is you can collapse them so don’t see anything wrong. Let people have their fun and sense of connection with strangers on the internet.
True you can, it’s a very small issue. The problem is they were always at or near the top. One chain isn’t that bad, but seeing it over and over again on interesting posts gets old fast.
I’m a linux developer of 25+ years and I’m permanently banned from /r/linux because I dared criticize systemd.
My answer is therefore: Power-tripping mods. Where mods are required, ensure the community has the ability to oust them.
There was a mod drama over there at Linux too. After a while, the power tripping mod was kicked out and a lot of the banned accounts were restored (including one of mine). Things were okay until spez.
Shitting on someone just for not liking systemd is really stupid. FOSS thrives on diversity, and having alternatives to systemd’s parts will always be a plus. I’m okay with systemd myself, but it’s easy to understand why some might not like it.
The Linux community tends to have some ego which think they have figured it all out, elitism is a problem which needs to be addressed more often in my opinion.
If you don’t mind me asking, what is bad about systemd is there a post anywhere?
Yeah, I was having a whinge about it here the other day. Just a sec while I dig up the corpse…
Systemd* removes choice*, and it was designed to do so. That is why there is so much anger. It is bad software design, by design. It flies in the face of the core linux principles, all in the name of homogenising the linux ecosystem, and you know exactly which big corporations benefit from that.
The simple fact is: today, if I want to run a mainstream distro without Systemd, I cannot. Its cancerous tentacles run so deep that decoupling it from a mainstream distro, and keeping it decoupled, is a full time job.
Instead I have no choice but to run a smaller, less featured, less secure and less funded alternative. Good luck getting Gnome to work without systemd.
Full credit to Devuan, MxLinux, Artix, and the other united underdogs.
Fuck you Redhat/IBM and your proxy evil-doer Lennart.
But if you want to read more about how why others hate systemd, there’s no shortage of material:
https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Main_Page.html
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21616608
I hate systemd, but my Gentoo is running gnome just fine with openrc.
A ban transparency list, kinda like a certificate transparency list, would be great but the big issue is that you can’t keep publicly hosting prohibited content…
I’m waiting for that to get implemented in Lemmy, but I feel like that is going to take a while unless volunteers get it working.
Outrage bait. Too much of reddit was stories and videos of people acting badly.
