Logline
A shuttle accident leads to Spock’s Vulcan DNA being removed by aliens, making him fully human and completely unprepared to face T’Pring’s family during an important ceremonial dinner.
Written by Kathryn Lyn & Henry Alonso Myers
Directed by Jordan Canning
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They’re also doing a really good job of playing out the long arc of T’Pring and Spock having genuine affection for each other to the point where we’re actually kind of going to be on T’Pring’s side when she finally reaches the conclusion of “Man, fuck that guy”
I loved the episode. Someone needs to make a Spock kicking the air GIF. I love that Spock has two hotties fighting for his attention. This was close to a hangout Trek. AND they were on a mission too! This episode felt so much like TNG. Again, Pike’s hair is amazing. THE BEST PART: When Pike tried to escape the reunion of Spock and his future mother in law the damned door wouldn’t open. Pike avoiding family conflict was the best running joke on the show. And LOVED that Pike wasn’t the hero. Show is so good.
When Pike was serving that tray of food only to make a 90 degree turn, lol
Aha! I just noticed that the lead writer on this episode is Kathryn Lyn, who also wrote the best episode of Lower Decks to date: the incredible “wej Duj”.
No wonder I thought that Ortegas’ line about “Notice how I move my eyebrow but no other muscles in my face,” sounded like something Mariner would say.
Nice catch. Also, T’Lyn was introduced in “wej Duj” and was named of writer Kathryn Lyn. Seems like Lyn has a knack for Vulcans. According to Memory Alpha, she’s a big Star Trek fan and cosplayed at conventions.
Much to my own surprise, I’m a complete sucker for this budding Spock/Chapel romance. I just want these two beautiful people to be happy together, damn it! We all know it’s doomed, unfortunately, and I hope that whatever inevitably destroys it doesn’t turn out to be too painful for the characters involved. Spock and Chapel are obviously not engaged in a romantic relationship in TOS, most obviously in Amok Time when such a pairing would have rendered the entire story trivial.
Someone mentioned in a previous thread that Spock’s Pon Farr (seven years before Amok Time) is closing in. I was skeptical in that thread that they would choose to touch on it then, but the events of this episode do make that seem quite a bit more likely, if (again) increasingly difficult to square with Amok Time.
I’m holding out hope for Spock/Chapel. I actually think SNW subtly branched away from the Prime timeline some time ago, so the future for these characters is not yet written!
what makes you say that?
The Temporal Cold War has made ripples in the timeline. The Romulan time traveler in “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” strongly hinted that history was at least a little bit different than it had been, with the date of the Eugenics War as case in point. I think the writers are freeing themselves up to make minor changes to canon. I don’t think it’s a branching timeline, though, it’s still Prime. Just a little bit different, like Gabriel Bell being replaced by Captain Sisco.
It’s sci-fi – if the producers feel strongly enough to make a blank slate, they can always retcon or shall I say future-con, and have SNW branch out a different timeline.
But there is nothing in the series so far that suggests SNW has diverged. Unless you count the visual aspects, I suppose, although that means Disco is also an alt-timeline.
@triktrek @CaptainProton Our instances sometimes don’t federate correctly, so I’m gonna reply from Mastoson this time! Here’s the reply that shows how SNW has, maybe, diverged: https://beehaw.org/comment/658690
Two things:
- In “A Quality of Mercy”, we know that Una loses her trial (in that episode’s timeline). In “Ad Astra Per Aspera” we see that Pike takes some unusual steps to secure the win. The only difference between the two trials is that in the second case, Pike has knowledge from the future which influences his actions in the present.
- In “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow”, we see that Khan does not wage the Eugenics Wars in the 1990’s, but instead during the 21st century. It’s a minor detail, really, but at the same time it’s a clear and deliberate diversion from the original series (where Khan and the wars definitely did happen in the 1990’s).
Woah woah … they’re fighting words!!
I don’t know but what Amok Time was Spock’s first pon farr. Vulcans age and mature more slowly than humans, right?
After some further thought, I have to make the observation that I think T’pring knew something was wrong with Spock. There are a few things that T’pring does that indicates she knows that whatever Spock is going through, it’s more than he lets on. The main indication, to me, is when she held his hand after pouring the tea, which has to be excruciating to Spock. She helps him while he’s pouring the water to ensure the tea is properly steeped. She initiates the end of the Ritual of Awakening; interrupting her mother because the timer has expired. She defends the memory Amanda and Spock share. I love T’pring because, regardless of the circumstance, she stands beside Spock and defends him in the best way possible.
Unfortunately, by the time she realizes something is amiss, they are committed to the ritual and they cannot get out of it even if she would want to delay it. I still think that Spock, at the time, chose to not disclose his condition for good reasons. I’m still on the fence that T’pring would’ve accidentally revealed that during the mind meld with her mother. I’m still onboard that Spock made the correct decision, however I can say that he should of at least disclosed that something was amiss a little later on.
I agree with you. T’pring really shows a lot of care & compassion here, and I think it makes her decision at the end of the episode make more sense. We obviously know how this relationship works out in the end, but it really has me interested in how/if Chapel affects the outcome in further SNW episodes. (I’m choosing to believe T’pring hadn’t already scoped out Stonn as a partner by this episode because that seems too cruel for her, but I guess we’ll see.)
I mentioned in another post that I think T’pring, despite asking for time apart, eventually realizes that Spock omitting his current condition was entirely justifiable. I think she’s hurt, but she then understands Spock’s point of view (as logic would dictate) that omitting disclosure was the best path forward with the highest probability of success.
It’s such a tragic moment because both their responses were reasonable.
T’Pring is about to be Spock’s wife, and it’s not simply a business union–she’s very much in love with him. She’s eager to be his partner and keeping changes in his life from her compromises that partnership.
The thing about Spock is that up to the end of the episode he’s still wrestling with the isolation that being bi-racial has come with–he’s aware that T’Pring should be let in but emotionally he’s never come around to that, having grown up at odds with other Vulcans.
What saddens me is that if Spock had communicated how his status affects his approach to full-blooded Vulcans (indeed if had even known to communicate it), I have no doubt T’Pring would have been much more forgiving… alas we sometimes figure out ourselves too late.
The moment when Spock saw himself in the mirror gave me a good chuckle. His reaction as a human to seeing he no longer had vulcan ears was hilarious.
I am completely on board with the Chapel/Spock shipping going on. My heart broke for her a little bit when she administered the cure to Spock.
Its such a good way to write their whole dynamic! That its only when he’s missing a part of himself that he feels emotionally accessible to her, but the part of him that’s gone is part of who she loves as well. Its good, “nail the fundamentals” tragic romantic shit!
I really enjoyed this episode. The whole cast of SNW are really strong but Jess Bush has been a particular highlight - I’ll admit I was cautious when I first heard they’d cast some Australian model as Chapel, but that caution was gone by the end of episode one and she’s become easily one of my favourite characters. Ordinarily I don’t tend to find that Star Trek romances do much for me but they’ve now got me invested in Chapel and Spock.
With hindsight my only mild criticism of the episode is the premise that a human Spock would be more emotional than the Spock we know. We constantly hear that Vulcans feel emotions more strongly than humans, but have learnt to embrace logic to control them - i.e. their nature is more emotional than humans but their nurture counterbalances this. So wouldn’t a human Spock (with biologically human nature, but the nurture that Spock carries from his life experience being raised as a Vulcan) actually be super rational and logical?
The episode acknowledges this at the end, when Spock says Vulcans feel more deeply. What I think we need to remember is that Vulcans have mental capabilities humans don’t. Human Spock literally did not have the same tools available to him that Vulcans do. It’s likely why Spock has more trouble with his emotions than full-blooded Vulcans.
He also points out that human emotions are different. I assumed this to mean the the rhetorical tools he uses to control his Vulcan emotions are ineffective on human emotions despite Vulcan emotions being stronger. It’s like having a vaccine for the flu, but still getting a cold.
That’s a good explanation of it.
So wouldn’t a human Spock (with biologically human nature, but the nurture that Spock carries from his life experience being raised as a Vulcan) actually be super rational and logical?
I reasoned that whatever tools Spock employed failed for one of two reasons:
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Vulcan responses to emotion are extreme: surprise isn’t just surprise it’s abject terror, happiness isn’t just happiness but absolute mf hype, disappointment is more like a spiral of depression. Since human response to emotion is much more measured by comparison, he’d need time to recalibrate… time he didn’t have.
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The procedure that removed his hybrid nature removed whatever moderation was done to him. As a normal human he may not even have a katra anymore, so it’s possible that whatever physiological changes that take place after kolinar aren’t there because not all of the physiology is there.
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I laughed more times in that one episode than I have during hundreds of previous Trek episodes COMBINED. Trek comedy has never landed with me which makes this the best Trek comedy ever by a large margin. Angsty Spock and the crew’s reaction to him were genuinely funny, with a special nod to Pike’s “WTF” facial reactions in the background during the ceremony.
Going in spoiler-free and without having read people’s opinions in this thread, I’m going to guess this is going to be one hell of a polarizing episode. But one I really enjoyed, so there’s that.
Hehe, yeah, same here. My favorite one was the “What the F—” from Spock from the teaser.
I absolutely love the Kerkhovians holy shit. They feel like they’ve fallen out of a slightly different genre of Sci Fi than Star Trek normally goes for, like something from a Revelation Space or a Culture novel.
One of my viewing partners said “They only know humanity from call centers.”
They’re like GLaDOS if she was… decent.
At first I was thinking, “I thought we had all agreed that we did not approve of hijinx” and I am totally unable to enjoy cringe humor. It doesn’t make me laugh, just…cringe.
BUT it turned out that it was in service of advancing two of Spock’s most intimate relationships and wow, that packed a punch. It was like, for us 21st century humans, the first time you looked at your parent and saw them as a fully fleshed-out adult with their own struggles, not just “mom” or “dad”.
T’Pring was 100% right to feel slighted by Spock not confiding in her, though I don’t think it was lack of trust on his part, I think it was more not wanting to have both of them in a situation where they had to deal with…hijinx. But that’s what marriage is, committing yourself to another person first, always. And apparently Spock is not ready for that yet.
In Spock’s defense… T’Pring was just saying that her mom would cancel the wedding if she found any deviations. Would T’Pring have been able to hide Spock’s situation during the mind meld?
I thought the same thing myself. I do agree with Spock’s motivation and the way handled it; I think T’pring’s response of taking time apart is definitely emotionally motivated. As Spock mentioned that Vulcans feel more intensely than humans, assuredly T’pring (because she does truly love Spock) was quite angry and hurt he didn’t disclose that he was human.
The time apart might be necessary for T’pring to realize that Spock’s actions were the best course of action given the circumstances.
If Spock had used that excuse it might have seemed logical. I suspect that it wasn’t used because the writers needed a stronger motivator for T’Pring and Spock to take a break and using that reason explicitly would weaken T’Pring’s decision.
I can understand T’Pring’s hurt feelings. She’s been nothing but supportive of Spock’s humanity and his search for identity. She tolerates the long separations. She desperately wants the relationship to work, gets to know his friends and family and she even gives him tips during the tea ceremony like a partner is supposed to do. To her, they’re a team, but to Spock, she’s still an outsider who needs to be compartmentalized in favor of his shipboard family. Spock claims it’s because he wanted to protect her and to an extent it’s probably true, but the bottom line is that he doesn’t trust her to be helpful, and that’s not the way a partner behaves.
No wonder that himbo Stonn’s in like a shot.
Ethan peck looked like he had a blast with this episode, screaming into a towel is a mood
I also enjoyed the “subservient” dad who really just wanted to eat good food and play charades but was shot down :'( but then the captain gave him leftovers with a cool snap :)
Also, as a meta comment, I really dislike the scenes where it’s clear they are just I don’t of the LED wall. It looks so fake and the actors just stand there in an obviously empty room. Season 1 of SNW had at least one episode of this, and season 1 of the mandalorian did too, and they really need to follow the mandalorian example.abkut having actual physical props in addition to the LED wall to prevent it from looking fake as hell
Having grown up watching matte paintings, shaky plywood sets, bubble wrap monsters and people running up and down the same corridor repeatedly and then decades of soulless bad CGI I have nothing bad to say about modern productions standards. There is something special and human about the artistry of matte paintings, scale models and physical sets but I don’t know that today’s viewers have the same capacity for suspension of disbelief. LED walls allow some story telling that would otherwise be to expensive to visualise.
The AR wall was obvious but it doesn’t bother me that much. Environments that require active suspension of disbelief have been a Star Trek staple since the 1960s.
I think my problem was that the rest of the sets look so good with actual physical spaces that a empty wall feels…empty :P
The last episode on Rigel VII was shot in front of the Holodeck (what the call Trek’s AR Wall) and it was breathtakingly good. The emptiness was likely part of the point with this species.
Regarding the LED wall, yeah, it was more obvious here. It felt like they were entering one of those gimmicky project-Van-Gogh-art-on-a-warehouse-wall tourist traps.
The episode where Uhura and Hemmer were trapped in the engine room was another one that stood out.
I needed the laughs this week and it totally delivered for me.
Star trek always does this to me, they introduce some character or change to a character that I initially would not agree with but they always make me love them. I’m going to miss human Spock now.
When they said they were bringing the Kirk’s into strange new worlds I thought it was a terrible idea, now I keep thinking how great a series with the new Kirk would be.
When seven turned up in voyager I knew it was because of sex appeal and the FHM magazine culture of the time so I was against it, now she’s my favourite character and I cried when she was made captain.
Whe Pike and Spock turned up in discovery I thought that was a bad idea, now pike is my hero and I never want SNW to end and Ethan Peck is totally smashing it as Spock.
Human Spock? What a shit idea. But, I absolutely loved it.
I would not be opposed if episode five of every season of SNW involves Vulcan Hijinks.
I’ve seen a great amount of curmudgeonly criticism of this episode in other places.
Can’t understand it really. There really seems to be a contingent of fans that just don’t want to have fun.
I feel like I’ve heard more people complaining about people complaining about this episode than I actually heard complaining about this episode. Feels sort of preemptive.
You’re fortunate to have missed the complaints elsewhere then. It really seems to be an episode that has very strong reactions, but isn’t outright controversial.
The reaction here seems overwhelmingly positive. Even the fans on old Trek BBS is mostly giving the episode high marks.
But the review by Trek tie-in author Keith Di Candido at Tor is quite critical, and that group of commentators seem largely to have followed.
The old sub has more than the usual quotient of nitpicks, but also enthusiasts.
Trek Movie is one of the few that takes the middle ground saying the episode ‘misses its mark’.
I laughed my ass off, and it was still Star Trek to the core. What’s not to like? They are killing it this season.
Things I liked: Ethan Peck and Mount have some great comedic chops. Many funny lines throughout, generally enjoyable.
Things I did not like: Never been a fan of altering Spock’s backstory with T’pring. Chapel doesn’t even know that Spock was engaged in Spock Amok. Please stop the T’pring stuff, also maybe it’s time we saw some Spock instead of all this funny stuff.
Overall an ok episode.
My last comment was deleted because it wasn’t constructive enough. Let me try to remedy that.
I completely agree that the confession part was not done in a way that fulfilled it’s possible potential. It felt forced and rushed. It was such a prominent plot point that had been built up for a while. IMO it would have been better for her to talk to a friend like Uhura who knew what was going on anyways. This could have made for an intimate character development moment. Like so we had more of an “alien of the week” moment.
So… what was up with the door in the transporter room slamming shut in Pike’s face when he turned to leave Amanda and Spock? lol
Yeah! I was wondering that too. Either it was a flub that they left in because it was funny, or it was a flub that they left in because they didn’t have another good take, or it’s a breadcrumb for a weird AI-takes-over-the-Enterprise season finale.
Yeah. Pike kept trying to avoid the family conflict the whole episode. Seeing the door shut on him and him trying to wave it open was comic gold. He was probably thinking, “what the hell? This is my ship!” then he just stood there looking awkward. Gold.