Reading about the current events got me looking into the history of Palestine and Israel, and I noticed a lot of Israel’s politicians (like Yitzhak Shamir, Menachem Begin, and Ariel Sharon to name a few) were Zionist terrorists (using the word literally, not subjectively) since before the establishment of Israel. The groups they belonged to, like Haganah, Irgun, and Lehi have been designated terrorist organizations by the United Nations, British, and United States governments, and
Albert Einstein, in a letter to The New York Times in 1948, compared Irgun and its successor Herut party to “Nazi and Fascist parties” and described it as a “terrorist, right wing, chauvinist organization”.
The Zionists have explained their view as follows:
Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the world: “Ye shall blot them out to the last man.”
and
Late in 1940, Lehi, having identified a common interest between the intentions of the new German order and Jewish national aspirations, proposed forming an alliance in World War II with Nazi Germany.[22] The organization offered cooperation in the following terms: Lehi would rebel against the British, while Germany would recognize an independent Jewish state in Palestine/Eretz Israel, and all Jews leaving their homes in Europe, by their own will or because of government injunctions, could enter Palestine with no restriction of numbers.[32] Late in 1940, Lehi representative Naftali Lubenchik went to Beirut to meet German official Werner Otto von Hentig. The Lehi documents outlined that its rule would be authoritarian and indicated similarities between the organization and Nazis.
It just gets worse the more you look into it, but it does give important context to the current genocide in Gaza, and to the decades old conflict in general.
MxM111 ( @MxM111@kbin.social ) 20•3 months agoYou should have continued citing your sources to have complete picture and correct historical context, not picking and choosing since it creates distorted picture:
Believing that Nazi Germany was a lesser enemy of the Jews than Britain, Lehi twice attempted to form an alliance with the Nazis, proposing a Jewish state based on “nationalist and totalitarian principles, and linked to the German Reich by an alliance”.[22][23] After Stern’s death in 1942, the new leadership of Lehi began to move towards support for Joseph Stalin’s Soviet Union[17] and the ideology of National Bolshevism, which was considered an amalgam of both right and left.
I guess, yea.
Lehi supported both Hitler and Stalin.
You’re right, that does make the picture more complete!
Arcturus ( @Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 16•3 months agoideology of National Bolshevism
That’s just nazis calling themselves “socialists”, the same way nazis call themselves “national socialists” while actively killing socialists.
davel [he/him] ( @davel@lemmy.ml ) English11•3 months agoAbolishing private ownership of the means of production is definitionally left, so I don’t know who would consider it an “amalgam of both right and left” 😂
Unlike in the UK where Jews were considered second-class citizens, or in Nazi Germany where they were being ethnically cleaned & genocided, the Soviet Union had Jews among the Communist party ranks, including the politburo. There were Jewish Bolsheviks in the Communist revolution, so they’d been there from the start.
Salph ( @Salph@infosec.pub ) 8•3 months agoThink you didn’t read it thoroughly enough. That text is talking about national “bolsheviks”, so just nazis.
davel [he/him] ( @davel@lemmy.ml ) English4•3 months agoYeah it was about the USSR and about Nazbols, but I only noticed the USSR part on first reading.
Anyway Nazbol shitstains always seem to pop up at the fringes to prey on baby leftists. Caleb Maupin’s little cryptofash cult infested BreadTube for a while, seemingly collapsed in a sex scandal, but still somehow seems to skulk about: https://cpiusa.org/
ikarushagen2 ( @IkarusHagen2@feddit.de ) 14•3 months agoIsn’t zionism the result of some dumb dudes imagination
Kwakigra ( @Kwakigra@beehaw.org ) 8•3 months agoFucking hell I didn’t know it was that bad!
Maeve ( @Maeve@kbin.social ) 14•3 months agoWould OP please consider posting this to politics?
Gormadt ( @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone ) 11•3 months agoYou could do so yourself but I understand not wanting to as this would quickly turn your inbox into a trash fire for a long time depending of which politics community you post it to and who is federated with who.
Maeve ( @Maeve@kbin.social ) 1•3 months agoI didn’t want to steal credit for someone else’s post. Or notoriety. Potato potahto.
Go ahead, please post it anywhere. It’s important that people know history.
Maeve ( @Maeve@kbin.social ) 1•3 months agoI can only post it to kbin. I’ve never been approved for Lemmy world or .ml
ETA: annnd I got the error message. Please remind me later
TTimo ( @TTimo@lemm.ee ) 2•3 months agoSome things are very wrong with lemmy when good content like this needs to get posted in memes …
Maeve ( @Maeve@kbin.social ) 1•3 months agoI got an error message but it posted anyway.
Rolder ( @Rolder@reddthat.com ) 2•3 months agoOn lemmy.ml, everywhere is politics! Didn’t you know?
Arcturus ( @Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 9•3 months agoLiterally everything we know of is already inherently political, on account of being perceivable by humans.
Rolder ( @Rolder@reddthat.com ) 1•3 months agoNot sure what definition of political you’re using.
Arcturus ( @Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 4•3 months agoManagement/governance of things having to do with humans, which is everything that we know of.
averyminya ( @averyminya@beehaw.org ) 1•3 months agoI think context matters a lot. Green Day’s “Dominated Love Slave” isn’t very political, and to be honest it would be kind of dumb to try and make it out to be. Similarly, for “Pulling Teeth” by them as well - they’re just stories about them. “American Idiot” on the other hand is political, and it would be quite dumb to argue that it isn’t.
As such, all things can be. Now, if the argument is that everything can be made to be analogous to a political statement, like how “I’m all busted up, broken bones and nasty cuts, accidents will happen but this time I can’t get up” for domestic abuse and our current state of the government then by all means yes though our human perception we can make that jump, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that it was the point even if I would agree. Exactly the way I likely would for someone’s argument about “American Idiot” not being political, like argue all you want but objectively it’s false.
Anyway not really sure what my point here is. I guess not everything is political, but it can be if it is reconstructed through multiple lenses. Kind of like memes!
Rolder ( @Rolder@reddthat.com ) 1•3 months agoBut there are plenty of things that don’t involve governance. Like I’m not gonna look at a video of someone playing with a puppy and go “Hm yep there is a human so this is political.”
Arcturus ( @Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) 1•3 months agoLate reply but the fact that people keep pets at all is also a very political subject.
Dataprolet ( @dataprolet@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English9•3 months agoJewish culture and history, especially Zionism is as diverse as every other culture and people is. Picking the worst doesn’t show the whole picture about Zionism. There is a whole Socialist and even Anarchist tradition of and within Zionism.
EDIT: I didn’t mean to offend anybody and everybody has a right to criticize Israel. My whole point is that Israel’s history and especially Zionism is obviously not one-sided, but is also rich in liberal and progressive ideas, that are worth to studied.
If you are interested in Socialist Zionism I recommend the following article as a starting point:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Zionism davel [he/him] ( @davel@lemmy.ml ) English6•3 months agoThat’s true. Weren’t those Zionist factions suppressed by the imperialist settler-colonial Zionist factions? What have they been able to accomplish since just before the Nakba?
Dataprolet ( @dataprolet@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English2•3 months agoSocialist Zionists were probably oppressed just like Socialist Anti-Zionists.
Already in the 1920s the Labor movement disregarded its socialist roots and concentrated on building the nation by constructive action. According to Tzahor its leaders did not “abandon fundamental ideological principles”.[15] However, according to Ze’ev Sternhell in his book The Founding Myths of Israel, the labor leaders had already abandoned socialist principles by 1920 and only used them as “mobilizing myths”.
From the page Dataprolet linked.
Can you show some examples of socialist and anarchist Zionism?
Dataprolet ( @dataprolet@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English3•3 months agoThank you, I didn’t know that.
LillyPip ( @LillyPip@lemmy.ca ) 6•3 months agoI’m 54. When people ask my opinion of this war, I change the subject. I’m not proud of that, but I’ve seen this war more than once.
I have strong opinions about many things, but I’ve seen what this particular war does and I’ve learnt there’s no winning it. I donate to Gaza, but nothing I can say will change the horror the latest flare up of this war will bring. Im sorry.
nonailsleft ( @nonailsleft@lemm.ee ) 6•3 months agoIt’s interesting as well to look into the history of the yishuv, and why jews concluded that they needed a country of their own. Something their muslim countrymen were more than willing to put a genocide on them to prevent
davel [he/him] ( @davel@lemmy.ml ) English9•3 months agoThe Atlanticist Jewish settlers are racist a. f. and treat the indigenous Semitic Jews like shit, while LARPing as indigenous themselves. They treat the indigenous Semitic Christians like shit, too. And they claim that the indigenous Semitic Muslims are foreigners. But largely the indigenous Christians & Muslims came from indigenous Jews converting to Christianity & Islam generations ago.
Ashkenazi Jewish women descended mostly from Italian converts, new study asserts
The new research underscores an emerging consensus that wandering Jewish men, from the Near East, established a mosaic of small Jewish communities—first in Italy and then scattered throughout Europe, often taking on local gentile wives and raising their children as Jews.
Israel’s DNA wars: Forbidden tests
Tracing your ancestral DNA is a popular activity throughout the world, companies offering home testing kits promise to uncover your geographic origins for a small fee. A Jewish TikToker took the test and found he had heritage in different parts of Europe, but in his results there was no trace of Levantine origins. A cool new thing to tell his friends about, however, he points out that if he was from Israel this test would be illegal. We delve into why Israel restricts tracing your ancestors DNA.
Edit to add: From what little I understand, even within the Jewish immigrants there’s a caste system between the Ashkenazi, Shepardi, Mizrahi, etc. And IIRC the Soviet Ashkenazi immigrants tend not to get into high political or economic positions compared to other Ashkenazi. Israel Admits Targeting Ethiopian Jews for Compulsory Contraception
nonailsleft ( @nonailsleft@lemm.ee ) 3•3 months agoWell, I’m sure not all of them are. And you’ll be happy to learn that the ethnic populations are getting more and more mixed every year
davel [he/him] ( @davel@lemmy.ml ) English3•3 months agoYes, of course not literally every one of them.
Dataprolet ( @dataprolet@lemmy.dbzer0.com ) English3•3 months agoHaganah actually fought against Irgun and Lehi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saison“The Haganah, the largest Yishuv paramilitary, was a Labor Zionist organization; on occasion, it partook in military action (such as during The Saison) against certain radical right-wing Jewish political opponents and militant groups, sometimes in cooperation with the British Mandate administration.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Zionism#HistoryAnd the Irgun split from Haganah, because they were presumably too defensive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah#1931_Irgun_split some_guy ( @some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ) 2•3 months agoFuck Israel.