The results are showing up… Now we have to hope for the law to be declined… Already discussed about the chat control law of the EU, here : https://lemmy.ml/post/16469106
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I would say matrix but that is unlikely. Simplex Chat and Signal it is.
Matrix is in fact decentralized, SimpleX too. But Signal is centralized.
I won’t disagree
Signal has downsides but it us still better than Whatsapp
Almost everything is better than WhatsApp
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They will try to bring it back to life every few years or so
nope, they’ll vote on it again in the few weeks. if it passes, e2ee messengers will be required to scan images on device before sending them. you will be able to not agree to that, but then you won’t be able to send or receive media and links, only text.
Here are the first vote results https://mepwatch.eu/9/vote.html?v=167712
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good luck getting everyone you know to communicate with you with “software from GitHub or F-Droid or something”. I’m having a hard time making people try out Signal, which is freely available on the major app stores (and which, by the way, has declared that they’ll leave the EU market if one device scanning will be enforced on them).
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Signal is great but lack some points, like the requirement of the mobile number or the centralisation of the servers
okay, but that’s not relevant to what I’m talking about here.
Right sorry
It’s easier with those for whom you maintain their phone. Mostly parents, grandparents and older locals, but that’s something too. You just install F-droid and then the app you need. If their system is recent enough, F-droid can even automatically update the apps, but that’s true even if it is older but also rooted and you can install the f-droid privileged extension
In fact it would be illegal but you wouldn’t take risks by using them. But the authorities could make them shut down one by one
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That would be difficult for sure but in fact it would be illegal
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I understand totally but it is better to stop this law as soon as possible
This person gets it. If something like this is made illegal, the best way to fight it is just to ignore them. After all, they can’t lock up everybody. Then they would have no subjects to enslave. I mean tax. I mean enslave.
Even if this is illegal - how would such usage be detected? Your device just makes a request to a random domain on a random VPS, and the traffic is TLS-encrypted - would usage of XMPP/Matrix/whatever be that distinct?
I totally understand and this approval is absolutely ridiculous just because it’s almost impossible apply this… But even with almost 0 chance applying to every apps it’s better to kill this law as soon as possible
What does “scan” mean here?
I read that and hoped for further information.
In fact it would be “scanned” by AI for searching all the kinda sexual, abusive stuff… In fact to protect children
But the link described it as if it’ll do database matching to find well-known images.
That’s why it’s a scan, like done apple with their gallery. Scan signatures, AI recognition etc…
They try every year…
With Christian democrats in the majority (preliminary results), it’s doubtful the saga is over.
Right 😭
If this ever makes it to the US I am going to put up a hell of a fight. On my left will be California and on my right Texas.
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That’s why the EU wants to control the chats. They would ask to software producers to backdoor their apps, and Meta Google and Microsoft would be OK with it.
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Read this how it affects you text : https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/#how-does-this-affect-you
All of your chat conversations and emails will be automatically searched for suspicious content. Nothing remains confidential or secret. There is no requirement of a court order or an initial suspicion for searching your messages. It occurs always and automatically.
Intelligence services and hackers may be able to spy on your private chats and emails. The door will be open for anyone with the technical means to read your messages if secure encryption is removed in order to be able to screen messages.
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By acting as a man-in-the-middle with the ability to read unencrypted message data (absolutely required in order to try to match against known CSAM), this is absolutely providing a backdoor as well as undermining privacy and security. By needing to trust another party, there is now a greater threat surface which is outside of end user control. One compromised account with access to that third-party is all it would take to extract private details from any messages, undetected, whether for sale on there blackmarket or for suppressing political dissidents, that’s exactly where this would go and we know this because state actors have been caught doing it and getting their toolkits leaked to criminals.
This kind of law doesn’t make children or regular people any safer.
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The only is avoid centralized chats, using decentralized encrypted ones. For all those which use Watsfuck and others like these Google-Zuckerbot derivates it makes anyway no difference if the EU scan or not their chats, especially using stock iPhone or Android.
That’s right but the EU wants to break the E2EE encryption for its power
Yeah, wait for it. Even in China they are not cappable to control all the privacy tricks and measures for messages by the users. Where there is a law, there is also a trick to go around it, I doubt very much that they manage to control more than the usual chat apps, the effort would be economically unaffordable to do it also in decentralized or even on self-hosted private networks.
They don’t actually have to enforce that though. Rather, it’s a neat trick: if you do use encrypted chats, well, you’re purposefully doing something illegal! To hide information, no less! That surely means you have more to hide, and since you’ve already broken a law, let’s investigate further!
To be clear: I’m not saying this is the intended effect. But it is a frighteningly possible one. Anyone who has reason to hide their communication (regime critical activists, opposition politicians, investigative journalists,…) either have to
- accept that their communication will be scanned, making it trivial to spy on them and use that information (legally, no less!) to hinder/stop them, or
- do something illegal, giving pretext for hindering/stopping them since they’ve now committed a crime
the argument ?I’ve nothing to hide? isn’t valid. Ask the people if then it’s also OK if the Postman or anyone else read their private correspondence, or is looking over their shoulder while you are chatting with someone, above you are investigated by the authorities when you try to avoid it, it’s exactly the same
Oh, absolutely. In case it wasn’t clear, I’m against chatcontrol.
They don’t want to forbid the encryption only to backdoor to have a control on it. But that’s almost impossible to backdoor all of them…
I know that the law is almost impossible to apply but first we have to stop it, if they gain the power of reading trough WhatsApp and else, they could ask for more after
Asking and being capable to do it are two different things.
I read the text, and didn’t find anything on centralize or decentralize messenger. Are you talking about the technical solution they want to use ? The text is very confusing about it.
While this is uncomfortable, don’t forget that this is not ChatControl - yet.
If you click the PDF link at the top right corner, page 3 says this is about extending a regulation that allows providers to voluntarily scan and report users. I don’t think this is a problem in itself, but to a degree it shows the MEP’s attitude towards this topic.
