“I must preserve my echo chamber!”
I find most people who complain about echo chambers are just mad that they aren’t allowed to barge in everyone’s door and start shouting their bigoted opinions like it’s some moral imperative we all give equal time to all opinions/ideologies.
Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers? Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time?
It depends. Defederation for good reasons is good, defederation for bad or false reasons is generally bad.
As an example, having a strict and democratic defederation/federation policy has contributed to Hexbear having the most active trans community on Lemmy, and it’s a good thing that there’s an actively protected trans space free from bigotry.
At the same time, defederating from instances for political reasons under the guise of other reasons is generally a bad thing.
It’s largely context dependent.
Yes. Doing something bad for a bad reason is bad, doing a good thing for a good reason is good.
Well that’s definitely your own experience on federated platforms, but I wasn’t speaking to that circumstance. I made a mastodon account and criticized our government’s massive funding of Israel in spite of our lack of critical infrastructure and healthcare and got spammed with “Israel has a right to defend itself, and you 're a trumper if you think otherwise” type comments by people that post one response and then immediately block you. Which is laughable and couldn’t be further from the truth. That is the perpetual echo chamber I was referring to from my personal experience.
Ok
Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers
Could be, especially if there aren’t a multitude of sentiments there. That doesn’t mean all sentiments must be present of course.
Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time
I don’t think anyone said they aren’t allowed to have such a space.
HOW DARE YOU HAVE A MODERATELY DISSENTING VOICE, YOU LITERAL NAZI?!?!
I’ll take this comment more seriously when literal nazis stop demanding we listen to them.
Oh literal Nazis can get fucked. My point is that you can disagree on topics and that health discourse is good
Sounds like you’re tilting at windmills in that previous comment tbh
I’d like to come to your house and take a shit in your bed.
There’s moderation and there’s making it into an echo chamber. Seems like a difference many don’t understand.
seems like nitpicking to me.
I don’t know if you’re joking or proving my point
Hope you get the help you need 🙏
Just bring TP, not Hope.
Of course this is an ML post
Lemmy.ml is federated with the vast majority of major instances, moreso than others like Lemmy.world. What are you trying to say?
It’s like yall forgot the entire post/punchline lmao guess folks really do require /s
Still doesn’t make sense, Lemmy.ml doesn’t constantly threaten to defederate from other instances over political reasons
It’s just me making a dumb diss you’re overthinking it
At least you acknowledge it’s dumb
Yes that was the intent
Might be good to add an
/s, considering how common that is on the anti-communist servers.yunno, on second thought, maybe i don’t want to be using a social platform where communism is the default stance
The structure of Lemmy itself is built on Communist principles, you’re going to have Communists even if you try to block Communist instances.
we could defederate i guess
It isn’t, but don’t let that stop you from leaving.
Yeah but not by a user from ml
It was a play on the joke/post
Why would someone who doesn’t like blocking and de-federation like “federated platforms”?
I defederated lemmy.world because I don’t feel like hosting and re transmitting US propaganda.
It is kinda surprising how much obvious propaganda makes it onto Lemmy, for example those memes that aren’t really memes as much as “haha this opinion wrong”
Lemmy itself is largely made up of Communists, Anarchists, and liberals fleeing Reddit.
As a consequence, there’s a lot of Communist agit-prop, and a lot of reflective panic on the hands of liberals.
The cycle of a specific comm on world
we only allow memes here
points out posts that aren’t memes
stop asking us to follow our rules
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is a very political place, even compared to Reddit where there’s a shitload of politics
I think it’s just as much a hivemind if not moreso than Reddit. Also, probably way easier to make bots for too
lemmy world admins cracking down on posts they don’t like with no accountability and arbitrarily changing their ToS after the fact to cover for it, but somehow the entirety of the factionalist weirdos who cling to the idea of a corpo-friendly Reddit clone are laying the blame on… other instances?
Users are celebrating them for a learning moment so yeah then blaming others is on brand
I tried like 4 different lemmy instances before settling on lemm.ee because it hasn’t defederated from the socialists or “tankies”. So I can participate.
This defederation fracturing lemmy really speaks to both self-censorship of allowable ideologies and also bad quality of admins and mods several servers.
If lemmy can’t somehow federate communities separately from instances I don’t see lemmy thriving.
Lemmy is thriving enough. Self-sufficient instances like Hexbear are fine without large amounts of federation. I do see Lemmy.world running into issues in the future due to their strong Zionist slant and anti-Leftist stance, but the other major instances seem to be fine.
I do see Lemmy.world running into issues in the future
I think lemmy.world is already pretty bad. To get away from their posts and comments I’ve considered joining hexbear, since you people honestly have the best content and most wholesome community and aren’t federated with .world, but I also don’t want to be completely isolated from the rest of the fediverse. However, I just noticed there are only 5 instances in hexbear’s blocked instance list and plenty in the linked list. Maybe I didn’t notice how all other instances started federating with hexbear again?
I don’t know what the “allowed” instance list means though.
To get away from their posts and comments I’ve considered joining hexbear, since you people honestly have the best content and most wholesome community and aren’t federated with .world
Make an account, Hexbear is perfect for you. I made a Hexbear account a few months ago and enjoy my time there much more than I do here, there’s far fewer struggle sessions and the quality of discussion is much higher.
I also don’t want to be completely isolated from the rest of the fediverse.
The cool thing about Hexbear is that it has by far the most active userbase I have seen, it’s fully self-sufficient and you won’t likely miss the rest.
However, I just noticed there are only 5 instances in hexbear’s blocked instance list and plenty in the linked list. Maybe I didn’t notice how all other instances started federating with hexbear again?
Some instances have Hexbear blocked on their side that Hexbear doesn’t have blocked, so this can be misleading, however it’s mostly the right-wing instances like shitjustworks, lemmy.world, and lemmy.ca that are of note, and their content fine to drop.
Hexbear the most wholesome community? I need to wash my eyes after reading that.
Although I’m curious, what itch does it itch for you?
Have you visited Hexbear? It’s a very wholesome instance overall and posters are very supportive, assuming you’re a Leftist. What leads you to believe otherwise?
Lol when I got banned from a major comm for defending a trotskyist comrade, after two years of participation on the instance, I learned all about the wholesomeness of your “non-sectarian” instance.
I think a prime example of hexbear wholesomeness is their trans megathreads: https://hexbear.net/post/3363552
They even have a community to help each other out: !mutual_aid@hexbear.net
I’m genuinely
unsurprised my previous comment got removed but anyway at least thanks for answering and providing an example.Anticommunism is generally removed on Lemmy.ml, probably the reason.
yes it is known that not being wholsome = not being communist.
And their desire to spin off their own version of lemmy in Java
Wait, what? Where can I read more about that?
It’s called “Sublinks,” I believe. They don’t trust the spooky scary commies and want to make their own, worse Lemmy alternative, which is silly.
Idk if it’s really to avoid the dirty commies.
Seriously think it’s just them thinking they either know better or just don’t want to learn rust
They could wait for Lemmy official dev or learn rust, it would take far less time. No, they want control.
Yeah it is thriving, what I meant is that to have a chance to replace reddit, lemmy needs to find some technical solutions (moving / migrating / merging of communities) and somehow stop fracturing into islands.
But maybe that age of the internet has passed and people are no longer willing because of trolls, bad faith actors, sock puppets, bots… and the increasing polarization of ideology and propaganda.
My point is that it doesn’t need to surpass Reddit, as long as its users enjoy using it then that is enough. Using Hexbear as an example, Hexbear doesn’t need any more growth, and is active enough to pretty much fulfill anything it needs on its own local instance.
I don’t think surpassing or having anything to do with reddit is valuable. I use lemmy because I think reddit sucks but now I can see how it can be better. For example, I want to disable all voting on my instance, I don’t believe it helps anything and the only reason lemmy has it is because of reddit, there is no algorithm or anything. That to me seems like the worst reason to have something.
Ok I’m just thinking out loud here…
Part of what makes (made) reddit great is that there are so many niche communities. That you scroll through reddit and find something interesting and new and can just jump in and discuss it.
THAT I think we can all agree would be great to grow in lemmy.There is no question that lemmy IS the same social media “mode” as reddit, a link aggregator where users can democratically sort news and articles and topics and discuss things. Lemmy is a clone of reddit, this can’t be disputed. The question is how to make it better than reddit and avoid the pitfalls. Right now moderation and admins are a bit problematic like e.g. the recent vegan clusterfuck.
And yeah for certain subs like vegan you don’t need downvotes since there wouldn’t be too many “controversial” topics. I suspect part of what is lacking on reddit is that there isn’t enough “tagging” on reddit. Like having ways for users to mark a post “funny/silly” or “unconstructive” or “misinformation” or NSFW, NSFL or hatespeech. Besides upvoting. Maybe I’m wrong with this.
But I think over time reddit degraded because the system didn’t support protection against malicious actors. For example tons of meta jokes. Every serious topic has a joke comment on top. You can’t filter them out. That might be a great use of AI like chatGPT for this where the AI learns from the tags and then allows to filter out joke comments. Not censor but allows you to filter out things that can be fun and crass but are not good for long term community. Basically to help moderators.
Of course the current problem is that users themselves have become more and more “post-truth”, not just the fascists but the “leftists”, liberals and centrists too and shout down any dissident opinion because they assume it’s bad faith. Nobody wants to engage any more because they’ve been burned. Maybe that can be reversed if lemmy has the right tools and the community is moderated well enough to “heal”. But again, the admins and moderators are currently the problem on lemmy. Lots of power-tripping and radicalism (and I don’t just mean the socialists lol).
And voting with your feet is also a problem because it leads to fracturing like mentioned in OP and that does have a negative effect. Like the europe@feddit.de community lost 75% of it’s users with the move to feddit.org. I assume similar things will happen to the vegan community now that you moved and people searching for vegan will be confused. Better technical tools are required.
So I think it’s not just about surpassing reddit in numbers, even though at least some growth is very curcial for niches to thrive, but to grow the usability of the software.
Anyway, just rambling / thinking out loud 🙂
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Yeah thinking about this, individual servers for specialized topics seems like the way to go. I guess it depends on the type of community. Vegan is large enough but still a specialized community that yeah doesn’t need size. It’s specialized but not a niche.
But other niche communities, e.g. av1, jpegxl or velomobile, are too niche to work without more people. I think.
But it would still be good if you could at least set a community to automatically “forward” to a new instance. And maybe that a community could “export” the posts from existing instance to a new instance. Then you could move or merge. I believe something like that is needed.
Yes, I basically searched for which one is least likely to defederate from random shit.
I’m prepared to traverse seas of horrors to bring home fresh memes every single day (except I sometimes skip alternating Tuesdays if I have to wait for too long to say hi to Reginald).
I’m not sure what’s going on in this comment but I like it
You are in luck:
In aggregate; 5 instances, less than 5 communities, and more than 69, nice, blocked users.
I don’t mess around. I don’t hesitate to block people who argue needlessly, make my experience less informational or less entertaining, troll, or disregard arguments made in foundational logic to push a point of view or ‘win the argument’. Similarly my instance ignores downvotes and does not display them; as with most platforms which behave similarly to reddit; they simply do not work outside of your personal, local account, local instance, user-sorting context.
let people defederate idgaf
🥱
this is so true lmao.
mm yes federated media platform, surely i won’t run into shitty people now
runs into shitty people:
Everyone likes dialectics and agree that it’s the best method to learn and move the thinking forward… Until they actually met with some antithesis of their thinking.
Funny coming from an ml user because you are the guys who banned me because i commented something you didnt agree with
OP is not a Lemmy.ml user, nor do users have the power to ban you. You’re tilting at windmills.
Have yet to personally block any instances. So far I think the closest I’ve come is blocking a spider community because fuck those hell spawns and a Minecraft community or two.
Edit:
Found out there’s more than I remember being blocked. Multiple mc communities, a cock community (, because that stuff ain’t for me and I remember accidentally clicking on one post from there by accident), a pussy community because I don’t come here for porn, a Sintendo community, some bikinibottomtwitter or something similarly named community (you can guess why), and for some reason an xbox community (couldn’t tell you why).
Also, I noticed for some reason I have someone from a different instance that I cannot remember why I blocked. Some guy from lemmt(dot)tf, so I have absolutely no clue since I have no idea what that instance is like, let alone remember anything about that account.
🥺 not the spiders
As an arachnophobe, I personally made it my mission to block that community without looking so I’d never have to see it again. Can’t stand spiders.
If you have arachnophobia then it’s understandable 😔
That’s why hexbear and blahaj are still federated, right? /s
What are you on about? Hexbear and Blahaj are still federated.
I wasn’t aware they refederated, when did that happen?
Ah, you meant Hexbear and Blahaj with each other, gotcha.
Hexbear defederated Blahaj and they remain defederated.
Why though?
Here’s the original defederation thread on Hexbear.
Generally, Blahaj and Hexbear disagree on what constitutes a chaser and thus Hexbear felt that Blahaj was not defending against chasers as well as they should, Blahaj moderators and admins were hostile towards Hexbear users, moderators, and admins, and general friction between the two instances. Additionally, some Blahaj moderators were ableist, using derogetory terminology such as “braindead” to refer to Hexbear users in removing their comments, as well as removing Hexbear users calling out ableism.
some Blahaj moderators were ableist, using derogetory terminology such as “braindead”
Honest question, why is “braindead” ableist? I don’t think that the term is used to discriminate against, uh, dead people lol
Some people disagree, though IMO it is ultimately ableist.
The term “braindead” originates from braindeath, a mental condition, and can also be taken in similar contexts to the “R-word.”
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