Legally in most parts it’s considered battery, which is worse.
In the state of IL, to even threaten is considered assault. Meaning, you can’t say, “I’m about to hit you.” In many other states, assault is any impediment of one’s volition. Any use of force is battery, which is why the two are often paired together, and you can get charged with assault and battery.
I remember when I was a toddler, the neighbor toddler girl hit me in the face with her shoe. When I hit her back, I got in a lot of trouble and was told not to hit girls.
Would have been a lot more sensible if they said “no one should be hitting each other”
Yes. I’m sorry that happened to you, it’s not fair.
That’s a faux pas, you’re were supposed to rape her, then get forcibly married as the good book dictates, and only then you can hit her back
I’m curious how old you are. Millennial?
Yep! I’ve moved up into the 35-45 bracket on surveys and I do not appreciate the reminder of my growing age.
I am older gen Z and I got a bit of this (don’t hit girls) stuff in school but nothing as stupid as you described.
The correct question is: “So you’re fine getting drafted?”
The correct question is: “So you’re fine getting drafted?”
No one should be drafted.
It works both ways, don’t worry.
No one is.
The only other karateka that’s ever knocked me out cold was a woman.
Roundhouse kick, right to the temple.
It was like the windows starfield screen saver, but r g b instead of white… then I was on ground, somehow.
Now that of course was consensual combat, kumite, sparring, in a controlled setting.
But if we really wanna get into this topic… tons of women physically assault men, as in, cross over the line from assault to battery. Tons of women domestically abuse their partners.
While 1 in 2 women (50%) report being the victims of intimate partner violence, 2 in 5 men (40%) do as well.
https://www.breakthecycle.org/domestic-violence-statistics/
Something like 85% - 90% of couples in the US are a male-female pair, so yeah, tons of men are physically assaulted by their female partners. Female on female IPV happens, male on male IPV happens, and I’m sure that nonbinary on nonbinary IPV happens, etc. Americans are basically just fucking violent.
I am all for the sexless and genderless standard of it never being ok to initiate physical violence, (outside of something like a clearly mutually consented to sparring bout), and that you should always do your best to de-escalate or simply flee a violent situation, that active self defense should always be a last resort.
Hopefully we can all agree that just as being generally physically stronger is not a valid justification to initiate violence, neither is being generally physically weaker.
Hopefully we can all agree that just as being generally physically stronger is not a valid justification to initiate violence, neither is being generally physically weaker.
Yes, and water is wet.
The source of this silly argument is not men arguing that it’s ok to assault women or initiate violence in any way. The original argument was about hitting back when being assaulted by a woman. It was a common believe* that you could never hit a woman, not even when you’re being assaulted. Then the "equal rights’ folks started saying “equal rights? so I can defend myself when woman attacks me same way as when a man does?”. I have no idea where the “you can just assault people” argument came from. I assumed it’s just a joke. I can’t believe people are seriously arguing against it.
*at least where I was growing up
I have no idea where the “you can just assault people” argument came from. I assumed it’s just a joke. I can’t believe people are seriously arguing against it.
They’re arguing against it because it’s a straw man, and they don’t want to say “Yes, you can defend yourself against a woman who is attacking you”.
I agree it’s a straw man but it’s so silly I think they are just trolling.
Also, I still think you can’t defend yourself against a women. Just walk away.
You should always just walk away, if you can. That’s good advice regardless of the gender of the person who hit you.
Any martial artist that isn’t full of shit and high on their own supply will tell you that self defense skills are only to ever be employed when you truly do not have any other option.
You always try to talk down a situation, look for or cause an opening to flee from a situation, or even just outright surrender/comply if that is likely to result in the actual immediate threat to yourself or others ending.
Even being robbed at gun or knife point, just give them your wallet.
You have a better chance of being able to replace your cards or id or phone than you do of surviving a close range gunshot or serious knife wound.
You only ever use force when 1) you genuienly have no other option and 2) the risks of using force outweigh the risks of not doing so.
Even then, you still must remain proportional.
I am offended by people who assault their partners on many levels, and one of those levels is the obvious lack of self control.
I guess you’ve never been physically assaulted by a woman, or met a woman who just does entirely seriously believe its ok for them to hit a man.
I have.
I just guarded, blocked, and escaped the situation, called and reported an assault.
My idea, my thinking was that it is so obvious that men are capable of and do enact violence against women that … we could take that for granted, and try to add something to the conversation that doesn’t get talked about as often, despite that it does happen nearly as often.
Being a violent bully isn’t sex exclusive.
I guess you’ve never been physically assaulted by a woman
No, I haven’t but I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. What you’re saying has no relation to what I said. I said that no one is seriously trying to justify assaulting people for no reason, not that violence is somehow sex exclusive. Maybe you replied to the wrong comment?
I literally just told you the point I was trying to make.
The thing that you are saying no one does or thinks… you are simply wrong, many people think that and do that.
To state it plainly: some people do think it is ok for a woman to physically assault a man.
Maybe less of them will outright say that, that directly, outloud, but actions speak more loudly than words… and we have statistics that catalogue those actions, that I linked to, and referenced, and explained, in my top level comment, that you replied to.
So you think murders and rapists will openly claim that it’s ok to kill and rape people? I think you’re confusing what criminals do and what people argue about online.
some people do think it is ok for a woman to physically assault a man.
Some people think they were kidnapped by an UFO. It still doesn’t make for a valid argument about extraterrestrial life.
I read it the same way.
Not to derail your excellent points about violence almost never being the answer to conflict, ESPECIALLY in personal relationships…
But is it wrong that I immediately thought you were referring to the Jordan Mechner classic game ‘Karateka’ from 1984?
Can’t say I’m familiar with that, lol.
Karateka is just the Japanese word for ‘Karate Practitioner’, like how a boxer boxes, a dancer dances, a painter paints.
Looking it up…
Oh, this is like one of the earliest fighting games!
No, no, that makes sense lol.
Like to think I fight in slightly higher resolution than that, but sure lol.
… well, at least when I am fighting and also conscious, hahahah!
The same guy who made Prince of Persia. Exceptionally early motion capture (sort of) in home gaming.
Genuinely very cool, I’ll have to look into this more!
The argument usually goes something like “okay a woman is beating on me I’m expected to just stand there and take it because if I retaliate at all I’m the aggressor somehow” like the whole “HOW CAN SHE SLAP?!?” Video where dude has like 20 Indian men come beat the fuck out of him for retaliating
If someone is beating on you, you should take the minnimal required action to make the beating stop which normally is just leaving but sometimes can including hitting or stabbing or shooting back.
But you never “get to” hit them just like you never “get to” be rescued from a burning car. It’s not a privilege, it’s a last resort you hope you never need and the day that you do need it is a sad, dark day.
Ultimately the issue is there’s two things people are talking about:
- Occasional situations when a man has to use self defense against a woman and is viewed as the perpetrator
- Guys being way to excited to assault someone
And people just talking past each other without being clear about which theyre talking about or disguising one as the other
The essential point is simply that what counts as minimal or reasonable force is entirely, and completely differently judged by society at large, including other women, when a woman does it to a man or vice versa.
Yes, use minimal. But also, be consistent about what you consider minimal. A bunch of people, feminists even, would be totally fine with a woman physically assaulting (slapping) a man if he says something bad to her. The same people would never allow a man to do the same, no matter what the woman says.
would be totally fine with a woman physically assaulting (slapping) a man if he says something bad to her
Yeah well those people are idiots. And also this feels like a strawman. It is obvious that walking away is a lesser action than hitting someone, and it is obvious that walking away would cause the verbal abuse to ‘stop’ in the sense that you would no longer hear it.
A bunch of people, feminists even, would be totally fine with a woman physically assaulting (slapping) a man if he says something bad to her. The same people would never allow a man to do the same, no matter what the woman says.
What a lovely strawman you’ve constructed to bash feminists.
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That shit was so infuriating.
He almost got killed! To make it even more bizarre, the assailants were all yelling insults about the guy’s sister, like “Your sister is a whore!” Apparently, if you want to insult somebody in India, you say bad things about their sister.
Also, why do people get into arguments over this to begin with? On the mens side specifically?
Like has it ever occured to them that maybe if you treat eachother right and with dignity that it won’t come to violence?
I get that people dissagree and even get a little grumpy at eachother sometimes, that’s human. But ffs, what are you 12?
Because it gets drilled into most boy’s heads from a very young age that you are never to strike a girl, not even in self defense. Violence by women against men gets a pass to a degree that’s almost ridiculous, including sexual violence - though with sexual violence it’s baked into the systems and discussions around it to the point that I can actually find you quote from people involved with researching or dealing with sexual violence being pretty explicit about the double standard and treating it as obvious.
That’s a lie, no boy ever gets told he can’t defend himself.
“You just don’t hit girls” is at face value a statement about offense only. But underlying it also translates to “just stand there and take it”.
I don’t know if it’s a generational thing. I’m around my 40’s and I’ve always heard/interpreted it in that direction/sentiment.
But again, I’m not even making a case on either side of that. The direction should be deescalation through meaningfull dialogue.
I don’t know if it’s a generational thing. I’m around my 40’s and I’ve always heard/interpreted it in that direction/sentiment.
I’m wondering about that too, since I’m around that same general age bracket and that was definitely the way it was instilled in boys in my community when I was growing up - You never hit a girl, under any circumstances. If she starts it, you stand there and take it or maybe try to walk away if you can but you absolutely do not retaliate.
That one’s fun when paired with the idea that you should resolve bullying by standing up to the bully when the bully is a girl and she’s throwing books at your head several times a week. No right answer. Ask me how I know. At least it stopped after a few weeks after I spent a week in the hospital for something unrelated - I think she got bored and moved on to another target while I was gone.
I’ve seen women hit men as a form of flirting
Me too and when i got fed up and asked her to stop a little louder than the 30 times before, she wasn’t happy at all
I had a FWB years ago who would do that up until the day where I wasn’t able to stop the response reflex and punched her right in the tit. Felt kinda bad since it wasn’t exactly consensual, but we did worse than that regularly, so it wasn’t a big deal.
She’d still do it periodically cuz she liked getting punched in the tit, but that was at least negotiated 🤣
I mean, it’d work on me
I hope most people can tell the difference between a punch which is playful and a punch which is intended to cause serious harm.
Yes, but there are women out there who think because you’re a guy they can hit you as hard as they like. It’s done playfully, but actually it still hurts and isn’t a fun interaction. If you ask them to stop, they’ll usually call you a pussy or a crybaby or some variant.
That isn’t flirting. That’s bullying.
My brother’s SO does this to him all the time, it feels so gross to me.
I’ve had that happen as like a light tap when I said something teasing them. I think it was a test the waters of “is it okay to touch?” kind of thing. There was never any heat behind it. I’d rather they do that if they’re into me than nothing.
Yeah no this is more forceful then that, semi regular slapping on the chest/face, punching, etc.
He’s never mentions anything about it so its been nothing more than me and my wife noticing and talking about it together but it just feels weird seeing it.
You should tell him that you noticed it and let him know you are a safe person if he needs help exit… if you are that ofc
Or maybe they just like to play rough.
In that case there is no harm voicing your support
Sure, I’m just saying that you shouldn’t assume that it’s an abuse situation.
I wouldn’t consider that flirting.
I mean the whole thing of “a man should never hit a woman” suddenly sounds a lot more valid when you morph it into “a strong person should never hit a weak person”. Like if you have a physical advantage over somebody else, don’t abuse it.
idk i think ppl shouldnt hit other ppl unless it’s with consent or in self defense/defense of others? even if someone is “weaker” they shouldnt hit someone “stronger” without a good reason.
Yeah, otherwise you assume a physically smaller/weaker person cannot be an abuser. Which is plain wrong.
Especially because abuse has many shapes
I feel like that sounds great, but what if somebody calls you like a racial slur or something? There are absolutely non-violent acts that I think would be worthy of a slap in the face.
Strong/weak people of any gender shouldn’t hit other people. But if you choose to start a fight, don’t be surprised when the other person decides to play along.
“Start shit, get hit” is a phrase to live by, because you can’t assume someone is going to take your abuse without giving a little back.
also like, if a stranger starts fighting me, I have no idea how far they’re gonna go. It doesn’t matter if they’re just tryna throw a light punch or w/e, I’m gonna assume my life is in danger and will act accordingly. Anyone willing to fight a stranger is incredibly unstable and dangerous as a default, regardless of gender.
I really like this edit <3
No one should be hitting anyone. If you initiate violence accept the consequences. I’m a small dude, do you think I shouldn’t get my ass beat for punching a bigger guy?
No if someone is attacking you, you defend yourself. Don’t punch back full strength, measure your blows.
Never thought to phrase it that way, imma keep that one
How about “don’t hit people”? Being weak doesn’t warrant not being an abuser or a threat.
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Just getting in before the equal rights and equal lefts chud-brigade turn up.
people keep talking about human rights, but what about human lefts?
Why would i talk about human left? They’re not in the room anymore!
A child (girl) kept single legging me at a party. I wrestle and she doesn’t. She thought it was funny. I played along with the silliness hopping around and connecting my foot to her leg like I would defend a single leg. I encouraged her to learn to wrestle. Democratize violence to protect from bullies.
Contact sports are so good for kids, provided that it’s safe and properly supervised of course. Children need to play-fight. Adults need it too, I guess.
Single legging? you mean kicking?
Just because it is illegal , doesn’t mean it won’t done, deterrent are different from complete/total protection.
who cares about the law? don’t frigging hit people!
That is the point, law and verbal means just functioned as guide or warning or threat, in real situation none of that really matter, it ultimately depend on the stakeholder, a person.
Equal rights, equal fightsOr how about we don’t start fights with people. That’s called assault.
I would never.
Decent shitpost but wrong community?
yeah, assault is okay in 196 🥰
Or even 197 😍
