Ronno ( @Ronno@kbin.social ) 22•1 year agoIt’s easy to polarize with such a headline/picture. Reality is way more nuanced than this:
Migrants are in fact being saved from shipwrecks, it is (sadly) in the news every week or so. The main problem is that these migrants don’t have communication devices with them to signal emergencies, unlike the submarine. The boat on the surface alarmed emergency services when they lost connection with the sub, starting the rescue operation. It is difficult to rescue a boat of migrants, when you don’t even know that they are in danger in the first place.
Secondly, the harsh reality is that most migrants try to enter a country illegally. Which by definition, is a huge risk on their part. The rich people on the sub were not doing anything illegal. However, in both cases, the people in or on the boat accepted the risks involved in their endeavor.
@Ronno the problem is making the natural human right of migration illegal in the first place.
gun ( @gun@lemmy.ml ) 4•1 year agoHow are you going to continue to enforce gun control in your country if there are zero borders?
CMDR░Nova🌊(駅陰ヌ) ( @cmdr_nova@hackers.town ) 10•1 year ago@cmdr_nova lemmy.ml is certianly anti-facist, but to my knowledge is not anti-gun
CMDR░Nova🌊(駅陰ヌ) ( @cmdr_nova@hackers.town ) 0•1 year ago@fu way to focus on exactly what I wasn’t talking about
@cmdr_nova I apologize, I had thought you were associating firearm freedom with fascism. Would you mind sharing with me what you were speaking of, as I clearly missed the point.
gun ( @gun@lemmy.ml ) 0•1 year agoRight, but if you want to stop school shootings with gun control and are also left wing enough to want zero borders, how will gun control be possible if crazies can just go and get their guns from places where its legal to get them. Am I fascist for pointing out an obvious contradiction?
g8phcon2 ( @g8phcon2@kbin.social ) 5•1 year agoWTF said anything about wanting gun control?
gun ( @gun@lemmy.ml ) 1•1 year agoI did. It’s just a random example to argue what @Banana@feddit.it was saying about reality being more complicated.
@gun open migration doesn’t require the elimination of borders. There is a border between Germany & France, but that doesn’t mean they have to stop people from crossing it. It still exists, laws are different, etc.
gun ( @gun@lemmy.ml ) 1•1 year agoIf you don’t stop people from crossing it, how do you check what they are carrying? How do you prevent guns from moving across a border in that case?
@gun I don’t think we should.
@gun i don’t enforce gun control laws now. As far as those that do…well…ACAB.
Alto ( @Alto@kbin.social ) 3•1 year agoSecondly, the harsh reality is that most migrants try to enter a country illegally
Great. Doesn’t mean you get to just outright murder them.
StankFlipper ( @StankFlipper@lemmy.ml ) 18•1 year agoIf these dumbasses have enough money to drop on a ticket aboard this sub to look at something you can see on a documentary, they should also have to foot the bill for the rescue mission. I’m sure all these rescue programs are tax funded that they dodge themselves. So, not only are they squirreling and eating up money we could all be using, but now we’re picking up the check.
escape_tape ( @escape_tape@feddit.de ) 16•1 year agoThink about it. If we just imprisoned all rich people, they didn’t have to be rescued from their shitty, expensive vacation trips.
skogens_ro ( @skogens_ro@kbin.social ) 4•1 year agoThat’s just the start my dude. Once we disregard insignificant values like human rights and personal freedom, solving the issue of other people making problematic choices becomes trivial.
Imagine all the crime we would prevent if we just locked up anyone who earns less than say 50k euros.
- argv_minus_one ( @argv_minus_one@beehaw.org ) 1•1 year ago
You’re kidding yourself if you think a billionaire’s only crime is being rich. You don’t get to be that rich by obeying the same rules as everyone else.
HelloImFrank ( @HelloImFrank@kbin.social ) 10•1 year agoNobody cares that they are millionaires!
You think the coastguard is only helping them because they are millionaires? No they are trying to help because it’s their job!I guess all those miners getting stuck in mines during collapses and millions of equipment was shipped over to try and save them over weeks of time was because the miners were all millionaires.
You have a fucked up view of the world if you think only millionaires get helped in emergency situations.
@HelloImFrank having spent 4 years in the U.S. Coast Guard, I can tell you that you are incorrect.
archon ( @archon@dataterm.digital ) 2•1 year agoCool, please tell us more how you refused to save people based on their income.
@archon i refused to do shit.
revelrous ( @revelrous@sopuli.xyz ) 7•1 year agoIf you go up a mountain to poke tigers, and a tiger shockingly eats you, should society drop everything and race up the mountain to find your pieces? It’s disingenuous to equate this to the miners.
szczur ( @szczur@kbin.social ) 0•1 year agoWell, you know. In this particular case the Coastal Guard did not do their job. That’s what gets the uproar.
down daemon ( @downdaemon@lemmy.ml ) 7•1 year agoi kinda wish the rich people had to deal with the pooping situation
LoreleiSankTheShip ( @LoreleiSankTheShip@lemmy.ml ) 6•1 year agoI’m out of the loop on this one. What happened?
cnnrduncan ( @cnnrduncan@beehaw.org ) 9•1 year agoA bunch of super wealthy dudes (including a bloke who went to space with Mr. Amazon and two members of one of Pakistan’s biggest petrochemical families) got into an obvious death trap after signing a waiver that said that there’s a decent chance that it’d kill them and now that it’s gone missing multiple governments are spending millions of dollars on an attempt to rescue them on the off chance that they’re actually still alive because the lives of the wealthy matter more than the lives of normal people.
ZapBeebz ( @ZapBeebz@beehaw.org ) 6•1 year agoOr maybe it has to do more with the region in which they’re lost. The USCG is typically very good about aiding anyone within their AOR, no matter their socioeconomic class. This should be framed more as “why isn’t Europe/Greece doing their jobs” than “why are the USCG/Canada actually doing their jobs”.
jeebus ( @jeebus@kbin.social ) 6•1 year agoSome rich people got put into a submersible where the glass hatch is bolted to the vehicle. The pilot then proceeds to turn on the Xbox controller to activate the vehicle. None of these rich people thought they should ask if the vehicle had and safety precautions, or perhaps a fucking steering wheel. The media has gone nuts over this story. Like “balloon boy” nuts.
@jeebus @LoreleiSankTheShip the “Xbox Controller” concern is a little bit of a media boogeyman. Similar controllers are used for military vehicles too.
Using a controller is reasonable. Not having redundancy would be insane. This article suggests they hand plenty of redundancy for surfacing.
Owl ( @BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz ) 4•1 year agoUsing a controller to steer a sub is normal.
da_g ( @da_g@feddit.it ) 5•1 year agoI know this could be controversial, but in some countries immigration is quite a problem, there isn’t enough work for everyone and the crime just gets higher an higher plus they do it illegally, not quite the same even though I get y’all sentiment
Captain Minnette ( @CaptainMinnette@lemmy.fmhy.ml ) 17•1 year agothere isn’t enough work for everyone
Immigrants induce demand for goods and services just like anyone else, thus the jobs to render those goods and services.
the crime just gets higher and higher
Technically depends on the country but this is usually false.
plus they do it illegally
Law is not morality. Perhaps it shouldn’t be illegal.
Venutian Spring ( @Venutianxspring@lemmy.fmhy.ml ) 11•1 year agoI always hated the legal argument. No landmass was ever historically conquered /populated / taken over / whatever through “legal immigration” except by indigenous peoples of those lands. These immigrants are trying to find better lives for themselves and their families and it’s horrible that people refuse to show any empathy for their struggles or dreams
da_g ( @da_g@feddit.it ) 0•1 year agoI’m just not going to talk to someone who thinks he’s morally superior just because he will never admit he’s wrong even if he is plus you don’t know our situation
drolex ( @drolex@sopuli.xyz ) 12•1 year agoIt’s not controversial, it’s just wrong. Immigration never takes jobs away, it always allows to create more jobs by inflating the local economy. Miami absorbed Cuban migrants after Mariel, and went richer. It has been widely studied now: immigrants took first low paying jobs that were understaffed, it injected more money in the local economy and it allowed spouses who were not working because they were doing the low paying jobs for free (nannying for instance) to get back to high paying jobs, it injects more money… Same in Germany with Syrian intake
da_g ( @da_g@feddit.it ) 1•1 year agoIt doesn’t always work out man, I live it in first person, they don’t integrate don’t work because we need every last job we have and distrust public peace
Hovenko ( @Hovenko@iusearchlinux.fyi ) 4•1 year agoThis is pinnacle of cringe.
em2 ( @em2@lemmy.ml ) 3•1 year agoMaybe they’re afraid of the families of the rich suing them /shrug
Asenath ( @Asenath@kbin.social ) 3•1 year agoSince the CEO went down with his s̶h̶i̶p̶ sub, the lawyers will have to get creative.
northwest ( @northwest@lemmy.ca ) 2•1 year agoThe passengers signed a waiver to confirm their knowledge that the submarine is an “experimental” vessel “that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20230619230915/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65934887
Aetherion ( @Aetherion@feddit.de ) English3•1 year agowhat happend to the 5 rich men?
Parsley ( @lvl100magikarp@lemmy.ml ) English15•1 year agoThey got pulverized
Apparently there’s been a “compress the rich” hashtag going around.
Though That 19 year old didn’t want any part in this, was scared of the whole thing, and only went to appease his father
Designate ( @Designate6361@lemmy.ml ) English3•1 year agoFeel sorry for the kid. Didn’t deserve it when he was just trying to make his dad happy
Holzkohlen ( @Holzkohlen@feddit.de ) English2•1 year agoI am also fine with expanding them e.g. in space.
NotaLLM ( @NotaLLM@kbin.social ) 3•1 year agoThe US federal government values the average citizen’s life at something like ~$12 million. This is mostly for policy like if 1,000 people a year die from something, say an unsafe ferris wheel design, a solution that would save them costing more than (1,000*12,000,000=)$12 billion would be rejected and considered not worth the economic cost. If the solution were cheaper, and cost like $500 million, then with good lobbying and a reasonable administration, it could easily become a new regulation.
Generally speaking if 5 anybodies went down like this submersible, you’d expect at least some millions to be spent in recovery missions.
The ~$12 million figure is what the NHTSA is currently using for its purposes.
average citizen’s life
That’s the problem, we allow our governments to treat people differently based on where they happen to have been born.
fbievan ( @fbievan@lemmy.fbievan.live ) 3•1 year agooof
Col3814444 ( @Col3814444@kbin.social ) 2•1 year agoProblem is the choices are;
A) seeing migrants die en masse makes people feel bad and helpless and weak.
B) Allowing people to say “stupid dumbass billionaires” makes people feel like they are better than some stupid dumbass billionaires.
It was always going to be B. Most times the media just goes where we demand it goes. If you want to complain about why the media is so shit -blame all of us.
@Col3814444 for me its certainly not about media, it’s about government spending.