While the lightning cable was ahead of its time when it came out, mostly because the USB consortium couldn’t get its shit together, nowadays it’s woefully inferior.
Having said that, Apple has still managed to fuck their customers over by making so that only their overpriced “high speed” USB-C cables can work at anything better than USB 2.0 standard.
I doubt that 3rd parties won’t try to circumvent Apple’s BS, but goes to show even the EU couldn’t make Apple drop the act entirely.
Edit: And that’s not even talking about the wildly expensive lightning to USB-C converter they’re selling to anybody desperate enough to hold onto their lightning cables
The USB consortium still doesn’t have their shit together, USBC is a garbage standard.
Open a drawer of random USBC cables and tell me which ones support which features, or even which features exist. It’s one connector and a half dozen different standards that support different speeds, data types, power amounts, display support, etc. It’s a nightmare to debug and shop for, and every devices you buy has a different random cable.
The only USBC standard thats good is Thunderbolt because it is always clear what it supports, but Intel owns that standard.
I’m not against phones being USBC, I’m against the stupid standard. Is incredibly annoying and confusing when I ask you for a cable and you give me one that doesn’t support fast charging (USB PD), or one that has usb 2.0 transfer speeds, or doesn’t support “alt mode” to work with my computer monitor.
Thankfully, they recently introduced logo requirements for this exact reason.
In order to pass through the USB-IF Compliance Program, all USB-C® to USB-C cables categories must be labelled with either a power capability of 60W or 240W by using the appropriate power icon and/or logo. The USB-IF now requires that all cables must be labeled with the 60W or 240W logo prior to compliance testing so that testing can confirm the intended display of such icons/logos. The policy now extends to all USB-C to USB-C cables. These markings must be checked before compliance testing can begin.
In addition to the power markings, in order to pass through the USB-IF Compliance Program, all cables except for High-Speed USB (USB 2.0) USB-C to USB-C cables, are required to be marked with the appropriate data rate they can support. An example, a USB 20Gbps USB-C – USB-C cable that supports 20V at 3A must be marked with the Combined Performance and Power 20Gbps/60W logo.
As if 99% of cables aren’t bought at dollar stores and gas stations to charge phones for 2 weeks before being lost or damaged. And none of them bother with USB logos.
All I really care about it the durability of the phone port, and usb c looks far more inherently fragile than lightning. 1/4 of the USB Cs on my MacBook Pro have issues, and my phone gets plugged and unplugged far more often, and only has one port.
I feel the same way about durability but apparently usb-c is rated to 10,000 insertions. Idk though. The lightning port has been very solid in regular use but I can’t say the same about the usb-c ports I’ve known.
Eventually wireless charging will be the standard so it might not matter as much for phones.
I’d be curious to see how many of those cables without logos are actually USB certified as opposed to being compatible with the spec.
Hopefully that improves things, and the logos are not weird and arcane like I half expected.
The logo is useful for data transfer, but for power delivery you can usually find the outputs on the adapter. For example, my 65W USB-C charging cable supports 3A at 5V/9V/15V and 3.25A at 20V. It’s not very consumer friendly, sure, but at least it’s simple (higher is “better”).
USB 3.2 Gen 2x2
A group of people thought that was a good name for the protocol. And as you were saying, with no marking to indicate the cable is compatible.
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I usually flex my cables a bit to figure out their types, if it’s stiff enough, chance that it supports PD. The only way to be sure is to plug it in though and pray the cable is not shitty enough to ruin your device.
Apple has still managed to fuck their customers over by making so that only their overpriced “high-speed” USB-C cables can work at anything better than USB 2.0 standard.
Not true. Be mad at Apple for legitimate things please, but manufacturing outrage is just silly and undermines actually shitty things they do. Apple has not nerfed their USB-C cables in any way.
One thing they have done is limit the USB-C PD charging speed in phones to not exceed 20W, which I imagine has more to do with long-term battery life than it does with upselling you, because there’s nothing for them to upsell to you there.
Regarding the adapter, don’t buy it if you don’t need it. As it turns out, many lightning accessories have been sold over the last 11 years. Chances are, someone out there will be happy buying an adapter before buying a new accessory.
Ah, so Apple definitely wouldn’t sell you a 60W USB-C Charge Cable while limiting other cables to 20W?
Nor would Apple ever dream of selling you a cable capable of delivering up to 240W for their phones?
I’m not suggesting that Apple is nerfing their USB-C cables. What I’m telling you is that they’re nerfing their competitor’s cables compatability in order to sell you a solution you wouldn’t need if they weren’t such dicks.
Also, I apologise. The USB 2.0 speed fuckery only applies to the pro series Iphones… the normal series ones are limited to USB 2.0 no matter what cable you use.
As for that lightning adaptor, even if you did need it I wouldn’t recommend buying that one, unless you’re desperate to give Apple even more profits. There are smaller form factor, significantly cheaper converters out there that will do the job just fine.
Bruh, those are for charging MACBOOKS. You can plug an iphone into that 240w charger all you want, it’s NOT going to use more than the 20w it’s allowed to. Period.
I hate Apple too, but you’re just ignorant.
You’re misunderstanding entirely and are blinded by the emotional reaction of what you assume Apple to be doing.
iPhones do NOT exceed a charging rate for 20W, so using a 60W cable isn’t going to do shit. You’re upset because they’re selling USB-C cables capable of charging beyond that number so you assume they’re upselling iPhone owners rather than simply making cables rated to charge their laptops which also have USB-C. Honestly it sounds like you’re angrier at the clusterfuck that is USB-C spec than you are at anything apples done.
How dare they make charging cables for your laptop, right? And how dare your iPhone be limited to charge slower than a laptop. /s
What competitor usb-c cables are being nerfed by Apple? Where are you getting this information? I heard lots of rumors about this prior to the keynote this week, but so far there’s no evidence of this happening. Are you still outraged over a rumor?
The non-pro phones are limited to USB 2 speeds for several reasons:
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They’re re-using parts from the iPhone 14 Pro, which had lightning, which was USB2.
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Most people do not transfer data to/from their phones using a cable anymore. Those that do are usually pros moving large files, and should be getting an iPhone pro for that workload.
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most people who fall into the tiny camp of transferring data to/from their phones with a cable and aren’t pros aren’t transferring large enough files for it to matter much anyway.
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non-pro iPhones will probably be brought up to USB 3 speeds in the next year or two, at which point you’re going to have to find something else to be outraged about.
Nobody is being forced to buy an adapter, why are you still so upset at its existence?
Hadn’t I been on Lemmy I wouldn’t have known there are people still using cables to transfer stuff from/to their phone.
Haven’t done that in 10 years, and deeply hope I’ll never have to start doing that again either.
This year it makes sense on the pros, if you take a lot of video because the port can do USB3 speeds, meaning you can now record to an external SSD.
Beyond that I don’t see much of a reason to. Maybe in a pinch to download something to your phone then move to a flash drive when you don’t have another computer around? Either way it’s awesome we at least get it in the pros.
@ribboo I think most people nowadays use cables for charging to be fair, lol. I doubt anyone still bothers connecting a cable to a PC, browse a filesystem only to find their vacation photos or whatever. Most just hit share, select the app they want to share them all through and off they go.
I use the USB-C Port of my phone regularly to connect it to my PC and move images from my Phone to my PC and copy music files from my PC to my phone’s Micro-SD card. I wouldn’t consider myself a “pro” in either of these fields, yet I have moved hundreds of Gigabytes of data this way. I also use my phone’s 3.5 millimeter audio port with headphones, IEMs or speakers all the time.
In general, I trust cables way more than I trust any wireless solutions.
I have a Micro-SD-Card slot, a 3.5 mil connector and a USB-C-Connector and I find all of those essential (would never buy a phone without one of these).
My phone is a Motorola Moto G31. Costs 170€. Served me well for over a year now, I’m hoping it will for some more years. It’s not particularly “fancy”, but it’s a good product that does everything I need it to. It even has a quite nice battery life :)
Now, to I-Phones. I think it would be fair for a 1000! Dollar Device to include USB3 Speeds. If the pro can do it, why can’t the non-pro?
First, the base model is $699, the pro is $999. Just to clear up as it sounds like you might have thought the $999 model was the base with USB2 speeds.
To answer your question shortly, it’s for the reasons above. You may not think you’re “a pro”, but moving hundreds of GBs of content by wire is absolutely a “pro” workflow. The more accurate term would be “prosumer”. Most people don’t do what you’re doing and don’t need to, therefore your use case would be better suited for professional hardware, rather than base model consumer hardware.
I fully expect the base model to get USB3 speeds over the next couple of years as usb-c on iPhones progresses. Apple does what a lot of manufacturers do, and bring their features from the previous flagship model to their lower end models over time. They also will often reuse parts in the base model from the previous year’s flagship. This is not exclusively an Apple thing. Strategically it’s a great way to funnel features and utilize premade hardware.
Other times Apple has done this:
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iPhone 5c (same internals as iPhone 5 with a bigger battery)
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all iPhone/ Apple Watch SE models (newer chipset in an older style enclosure)
Thanks for the response, I understand your points better now. I still think that 699$ is a lot of money for a device that doesn’t support USB3 speeds, but then again, that’s just “apple tax”. Which doesn’t mean I’m against the “feature-funneling” method you described, that definetely has a lot of advantages.
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I can’t believe you just linked laptop charging cables that use USB-C as “proof” Apple is upselling iPhone users hahahaha.
I’m curious, are you just mad because iPhones are listed as “compatible”? Because that’s literally a benefit of moving to USB-C. The cables are compatible because they use the same physical connector. Would you rather Apple arbitrarily restrict which USB-C cable of theirs your iPhone works with? Or are you mad your phone can’t charge as fast as your laptop?
only their overpriced “high speed” USB-C cables can work at anything better than USB 2.0 standard.
Which devices? Because the iPhone 15 only has usb 2.0 in the non-pro models, so are you talking about the pro models, or something else like iPads?
How is being a cableless beggar a flex?
I have always had an Android phone, while my wife has had iPhones. Whenever one of the kids got old enough to get their own phone, they inherited hers and gave her an excuse to get a new iPhone. (Meanwhile I just traded mine in.)
The unintentional result is that she can never find a charging cable or block for her phone because the kids keep taking them (and inevitably somehow breaking them), while I have a surplus of ways to charge my own. And also the kids’ batteries are always low, because they can’t figure out how to ration screen use with an old-ass worn out battery.
So everyone else in the house is always squabbling about who took the charger, while I rarely see my phone dip below 50%. They hate it SO MUCH when I point this out. I swear I try not to smirk when I do.
I went to visit my in-laws one winter and my Samsung charging block turned up missing. I’m the only non-Apple phone in the family. I’d be mad, but I’m sure someone needed it more than me.
Good news! With the next generation iPhone, your cables are no longer safe.
D’oh!
I remember when they switched from 30 pin to lightning when I was in highschool. It was the best time to be a little shit, whenever someone asked if you had an iphone charger you could ask what kind they need and then say you have neither.
Apple introduced the Lightning connector with the iPhone 5 back in 2012. At the time, it was reversible and superior to the existing Micro-USB connectors. Having been manufactured of a single piece of metal, it was also more durable than the more complex USB connectors.
The first USB-C phone was released in 2015. Samsung released their first USB-C phone, the infamous Galaxy Note 7 in 2016. Their flagship model didn’t use USB-C until 2017.
I find the whole Lighting-hate thing slightly puzzling. Imagine that you come up with a technological solution that solves a problem. Years later, other people finally find a way to solve the same problem. Then they accuse you of being backward. Finally the use of your solution is declared illegal.
Still, now that iPhone indeed has switched to USB-C, Apple’s keyboards, headphones and touchpads should follow suit as soon as possible. It makes no sense for them to use Lightning anymore as the ecosystem around it is obsolete.
Edit: another thing that I have found puzzling is how Apple is getting all the hate for proprietary standards, yet at the same time multiple other manufacturers have developed their own proprietary fast charging protocols which means you need both a proprietary cable and a proprietary charger to charge your phones to get charging speeds anywhere close to what is advertised. This was tested by for example Android Authority a few years back. To provide a more up-to-date example, OnePlus 10 Pro supports fast charging at 65 watts but only with its own ”SuperVooc” charger. If you try to charge through USB-PD, you are limited to 18 watts even though PD would theoretically support up to 240 watts. The SuperVooc chargers also refuse to charge any other device at a power higher than 10 watts. It’s interesting how this phenomenon has slipped under most people’s radar.
A lot of the hate comes from apple having been a big supporter of the usb-c standard when it was developed, yet they still chose to go the anti-consumer route and stick with lightning for years after they already had a better cable. Now there’s landfills of useless lightning cables, while we can still use micro-usb for a lot of other old devices.
after they already had a better cable
Better how? There is nothing in the iPhone 15 that was improved after changing the port. For the iPhone 15 Pro, faster transfer speeds are now supported but if we are honest, how many iPhone owners will ever transfer anything to or from their phones using a cable? I remember doing so once in the past 5 years. Using the cloud or AirDrop is significantly more convenient. On a device as small as the phone fast charging at higher wattage than what Lightning already provided is most likely going to murder your battery.
Now there’s landfills of useless lightning cables, while we can still use micro-usb for a lot of other old devices.
I don’t see why we couldn’t still use Lightning cables for old devices the same way as we can use micro-usb cables for old devices? Apple and other manufacturers have sold billions of devices and accessories utilizing Lightning. It’s not going to disappear any time soon.
I don’t see why we couldn’t still use Lightning cables for old devices the same way as we can use micro-usb cables
Because Lightning is proprietary. There are no old devices outside of Apple’s ecosystem that use Lightning.
Fucking everything uses/used micro usb. Flashlights, controllers, vapes, Rokus, etc… basically any consumer electronic you can think of had a version using micro usb on it for something at some point.
But Apple has alone sold a billion devices using Lightning. Many of those devices will likely remain usable for years.
Sure, but all of them will assuredly have a direct official USB-C replacement, that is also better in other ways(i.e over the base iphone 14, besides usb-c, the base 15 also gains the A16 SoC and dynamic island), in the near future. Nobody is saying get rid of those older devices just to be on the new standard, but eventually people WILL upgrade. Whether that be for new features,faster performance, better audio quality, or just plain wanting to be done with Lightning, something will cause them to upgrade.
Despite being obsolete in every single possible way, this isn’t the case for micro-usb. Unlike with Apple devices where there’s always a tangible, if maybe not worthwhile, upgrade on the newer model, there are SO many things micro-usb is used on that NEVER need to be replaced unless it physically breaks. Until they literally break, my micro-usb charged flashlight is just as good as my usb-c flashlight, my decade old alarm clock powered by micro-usb is just as good as a brand new usb-c alarm clock, etc…
I used to use an iPhone X to move photos from my camera’s sd card to my ssd while traveling. The transfers took a long time and would definitely have benefited from faster transfer speeds.
Did they did improvements on it or it has been always the same identically connector?
At least one improvement has been made to the spec over the years: the iPhone X / iPhone 8 introduced support for fast charging through the USB-PD standard which meant something had to be upgraded. I’m fairly sure that change did not result in physical changes to the connector though. It has always remained backwards-compatible.
It doesn’t have to be a OnePlus charger, it can be any charger that actually has that output.
Literally it’s just wealth peacocking and classism, that’s it… people who are proud of owning an iphone are gross
There is more expensive and nicer built iPhones if you really care about blowing money, it’s all so stupid.
Also… Who cares? It’s 2023 all phones pretty much do the same shit.
Even better when your mental idea of an iphone charger is a conector hanging from a wire with the insulation peeled.
They will also soon be forced to allow app sideloading. This might be huge and the only way I’d consider an iPhone
YouTube ReVanced and Gecko Firefox UBlockO would be the only way I consider an iPhone. And emulator support. This isn’t negotiable.
iPhones are great for one reason and one reason only: they have a great app ecosystem. Most Android apps are really shit. I know there are great exceptions out there, but it’s rare.
It’s weird how the EU is forcing Apple to make better products, since tbh the combination of better apps on the app store, and being able to sideload your own from anywhere kind of makes the iphone a no brainer.
Constantly having to charge your phone…not really a flex.
Sent from my iPhone
This not a meme. This is real shit
it’s more of a battery problem than a flex lol
How could this be viewed as a flex. It would be akin to viewing someone burning money in a sealed plexiglass cage where they also need to announce how easy it was to enter.
I bought a new iPhone 6 for $200 when they were a couple years old. I used it for 3 years and was pretty happy with it. The idea that iPhones are more expensive than android is about 10 years outdated. You do get higher specs for the price with android but it doesn’t make a huge difference unless you’re trying to be bleeding edge.
It’s not that android phones themselves cost less. Though they very often do. It’s that apple keeps you locked into a shitty app environment, has garbage peripherals with insane price tags, and connecting it to a Windows machine is a pain.
I don’t really want to do anything with apps besides camera, photos and a web browser, steam link, discord, garageband and various apps I have to install like my medical apps, so that’s fine with me. I used to alternate between Android and iOS every time I bought a phone and I gave up after the Galaxy S9. I bought the S9 because it theoretically had a better camera than the iPhones I was comparing too, but the camera app was far inferior so that didn’t work out. I don’t use any peripherals, and have no desire to connect my phone to Windows… so, works great for me.
Makes sense. And I agree that Samsung phones are full of problems, fucking Bixby bullshit.
File transfer is my main issue with apple, and it can still do that you just need to jump through their proprietary hoops.
Pretty much they want to force you to have a Mac, and that is indeed annoying. There’s an iCloud plugin for Explorer but it’s terribly written. It’s possible to use the website, I guess.
My iPhone cost $125. I bought it last year and according to the menu, it’s an SE2. It’s the fourth iPhone I’ve had since 2012, for which I’ve paid a total of <$350. My last one never broke, but it had 16 gigs and was sadly no longer really usable.
I don’t really care about my phone, my favorite thing about it is the size, but I stick to iPhones because it’s so easy to just log into the phone and have your old phone virtually.
A small handful of friends have had their phones die at my house because neither me nor my neighbor I’m friends with have any iPhone cables. Them being able to charge their phone now might get them to see the light a bit. (and hopefully stop being the only reason our group chat isn’t rcs)
Also I can actually borrow peoples cables now, seems everyone with a cable has an iphone
