Hoo boy. Not a good look AMD. It was scummy when nVidia did this, it’s scummy when you do it.
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I mean this is literally just sponsoring a game
This usually means only FSR, no DLSS. What does it matter that FSR can be used on all hardware, if it’s the inferior technology? Let those who can use DLSS, and others FSR and XeSS.
Since it’s your mom-and-pop multi-billion dollar company, it’s fine that they screw over consumers. They are not like the evil multi-billion dollar company from down the road.
Keeping out a vendor-specific one in favor of a vendor-agnostic one seems actually positive to me. That vendor-specific “superiority” must be fought.
Agreed. The net effect of this kind of choice - what the person above you is saying - is exactly the intended effect. It lowers the value of Nvidia users’ cards to them, but, critically, only because Nvidia plays these bullshit exclusivity games.
Nvidia users can’t get the most out of their cards on a big, popular new game and they’re all mad about it? Well, there’s an easy fix, Nvidia, to prevent these situations in the future: Just open DLSS up to everybody. Boom, done. AMD and Bethesda aren’t the ones being assholes, here, and it’s not their fault that Nvidia’s customers aren’t getting the most out of their cards.
Blocking support for a superior technology, that almost half of all Steam Users can use, is truly what’s best for gamers.
It would be one thing if you had to choose between FSR and DLSS (or XeSS), but these aren’t mutually exclusive. You can actually add all three, quite shocking, I know.
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Do you have any proof to these claims? This link posted above shows otherwise. Granted this is not absolute proof but the stats show a different story to me.
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So no? The data the article is sourced from https://wccftech.com/whats-up-with-the-missing-nvidia-dlss-support-in-amd-sponsored-fsr-titles/ shows the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Nvidia explicitly states that they do not block devs from implementing FSR. Whereas AMD completely dodges the question.
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The data being shown in this thread strongly disagrees with your position.
The wccftech link in the post you replied to lists several games, which company sponsored the game, and what upscaling tech is available for them along with what date those techs were available.
It is completely opposite of what you’re saying. Nvidia’s titles support both, and AMD’s are mostly FSR-only.
I would love to agree with you, but the data doesn’t.
I like how you still haven’t provided any evidence for your claims.
The underlying wccftech.com article reads like a Nvidia press release.
What does it matter that FSR can be used on all hardware, if it’s the inferior technology?
FSR not being arbitrarily locked to a brand of hardware automatically makes it the superior technology.
It’s fine for my Steamdeck, but at 5120x1440 on my ultra-wide, it looks like smeared shit. I don’t have that problem with DLSS.
Having to rely on upscaling technology and techniques is the biggest blow to gaming in years, honestly.
Nvidia literally refuted this argument and come out and say they don’t force devs to leave out FSR. DLSS workshop also includes tools for devs to put FSR and XeSS in their games along with DLSS.
Where as AMD responded with PR bullshit and fuckall.
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I’m struggling to find games released in the last two years that support DLSS but not FSR.
The problem is, like it or not, DLSS is way better than FSR. So naturally, people who have capable hardware feel a little miffed when they are saddled with the inferior solution.
Plenty can be said about Nvidia’s anticompetitive practices, but I don’t think this is explicitly one of them. They don’t block games from supporting FSR, though probably not out of the goodness of their heart. They know DLSS is better, so having games support both makes it a lot easier for reviewers and consumers to make this comparison. AMD obviously doesn’t want this unfavorable comparison, which is why they probably pay developers to not include DLSS.
Or, just a thought here, it’s because FSR is open source. You can literally go look at it on github right now.
DLSS is not. Guess which one is easier to implement into a game? If you guessed FSR, you’d be right. You don’t need to involve AMD the company at all to implement FSR into your game. That is not true of DLSS and Nvidia.
You’re taking a selection bias as a causative argument from a conclusion.
DLSS being closed source is literally an example of Nvidia’s anticompetitiveness, by definition.
I think it’s a stretch to claim that proprietary software is inherently anticompetitive, though I won’t argue that Nvidia as a whole is often very anticompetitive.
Implementing DLSS is no more fundamentally difficult than implementing FSR. Source-availability only makes things easier in certain edge cases, most uses will just use the precompiled library provided by the vendor. You don’t need any kind of special permission or agreement with Nvidia to use DLSS. The interface for these libraries is so similar that there are already community-made wrappers that adapt between the two for games that only support one.
a stretch to claim that proprietary software is inherently anticompetitive
That’s exactly the point of making something proprietary. Like, literally the point, so your competitors cannot use it. It’s anti competitive.
no more fundamentally difficult than implementing FSR
So we’ve established:
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That FSR is freely available to implement
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That DLSS is proprietary
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That FSR is on more games than DLSS and/or that games with DLSS often have FSR.
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That DLSS works only on NVIDIA cards
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that FSR works on, for all intents and purposes, all cards.
And you think it’s evidence of foul play that FSR is on more games? Really? You don’t see how your sampling bias has played into this?
You really don’t believe AMD sponsoring these games has anything to do with it?
Ease of implementation in most cases can’t have anything to do with it, because most games don’t even need to do any work to enable it. DLSS is “free as in beer”, meaning we don’t have to pay any licensing fees to use it. DLSS support is included in Unreal and Unity, right alongside FSR. They’re both just checkboxes. Being open source is not a factor here. The distinction between gratis and libre is a much more philosophical concern than a technical one. Trust me, as a developer, a library being proprietary means very little to us when building a video game. What we care about is how much money it costs, and what do we get for that money.
AMD isn’t your friend anymore than Nvidia, they just want you to think they are because they don’t have an abusable market position yet.
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This doesn’t really bother me because FSR is open source and platform neutral.
But unlike g-sync and freesync, FSR2 isn’t good enough to match DLSS3 yet.
Well, maybe Nvidia should spend time trying to improve it instead of creating more vendor lock-in.
their stock price and market share suggest they should continue to offer more exclusive features that have better results than their competition
Funnily enough, the stock market doesn’t usually have what’s best for us in mind.
I’d love to know how much AMD is paying to keep DLSS out of the game.
As bad as the performance seems to be (30 FPS on current consoles?), I think they should offer DLSS, FSR 2, and Intel’s XeSS. Invite everyone to the table, they’re practically printing money already with preorders. Exclusivity is ridiculous.
Doesn’t seem that surprising since AMD has its chips in all the consoles. Probably just makes the PC and Xbox version extra similar
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Well this is very unfortunate. So poorly played by bethesda that I’m going to rethink buying the game.
I didn’t choose pc gaming so these graphics cards companies can split the market here too like with the consoles.
FSR2 splits the market the least since it can run on any GPU, unlike DLSS which wouldn’t be able to run on the console versions (so they’d have to add and optimize for FSR2 anyway; extra work for little benefit).
What split? You can implement all three technologies.
As far as I know it’s not a lot of (extra) work to add them, and if half of the PC player base can use DLSS it’s more than “little benefit” to me.
Sure, you can, but if one technology is both “good enough” and “works on everything” I can understand why the developer might only bother with that one. Proprietary, vendor-locked standards leave a bad taste in my mouth.
I would like to at least see XeSS implemented in addition to FSR2, as it’s another open standard. With any luck, pressure could be put on Nvidia to make DLSS vendor-agnostic as well, but they’ve proven over and over again that they really don’t care about gamers.
How about pressuring AMD joining Streamline, so devs can add all three technologies at once and players can choose whatever they want?
I didn’t even know about Streamline until your comment. As an open-source framework to make it easier for game devs to add upscaling tech from multiple vendors in the form of separate plugins, I’m definitely in favor of it.
Nah, they do care about gamers, they just don’t want them buying AMD or Intel
“Buy our $400 product with 8gb VRAM over an 8x PCIe lane, we really care about your experience.”
Yeah, but Nvidia partnered games usually also support FSR and XeSS, AMD partnered games only get FSR
I guess this isn’t the end of the world for Nvidia users, because FSR 2.2 is pretty good, and this game will be unlikely to have ray tracing that requires a lot of upscaling anyways, but it still sucks that the only way games will run well on any PC hardware nowadays is if the developers are paid to optimize for it.
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Aw man, I just bought a build with a 6800 XT. I hope it still benefits. I know nothing about how this all works.
FSR2 (not SSR2, that’s a typo) should work on any graphics card, your 6800 XT included; the statement just means they worked with AMD engineers specifically for optimizations on Ryzen/Radeon 7000 hardware.
Going with only FSR2 means Bethesda only had to optimize and bugfix their implementation of one type of upscaling technology, saving dev time. Consoles use AMD hardware, so they’d have to do that work with FSR2 even if they included DLSS, which means DLSS would be extra work for a marginal improvement over FSR2 for the subset of PC users using Nvidia.
Ah, got it. That’s super reassuring thank you.
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