For context, in my password manager I had tried formatting some of my entrees so that it would contain the usual username and password, but instead of creating whole new entrees for the security questions for the same account, I just added additional fields in the same entree in order to keep things a little more tidy.
I was not expecting that doing so would result in later being shaken down by Proton to pay even more money just to access the same few bytes of fucking text I had trusted them with. This is sleazy as fuck and I am dropping these idiots entirely.
Dude, jfc calm down. You pay a little money to get premium services, instead of them monetizing user data. This is the way the world works with paid software, except they’re not making money on your data and you, just you.
Maybe some context in what exactly you pay for would help too. I’m assuming you pay for a base tier of mail, bc I use their password manager too but pay for the full suite, and don’t have this issue.
Maybe also a chat with support might find this to be an unexpected bug, but instead you’re coming to Lemmy to the echo chamber of hate on proton which won’t help.
It is a shakedown to accept your data for free then charge you to access it later.
What the fuck else would you call that?
It kind of sounds like OP tried to circumvent limitations in the free tier by formatting the available field in a certain way, but this then got caught by proton and then stored “correctly”, which is in a way that requires the paid tier.
Uh no. First off, I’m not on the free tier. I’m not on the most expensive tier, but I do pay for my account $4.99 monthly. Second, I used the built in features exactly as intended. Every login entree in Proton Pass has the option to add additional fields that you can name. That’s what I did, every security question being the name, and every answer being the data filled in. There was nothing to circumvent, because at least according to their pricing plans, even the free tier claims to allow unlimited logins.
It is literally ransomware. They allowed me to enter data in their program as intended, and then held that data ransom in order to pressure me into upgrading into a higher tier.
but instead you’re coming to Lemmy to the echo chamber of hate on proton which won’t help
You call it an echo chamber, others call it having some standards on how much your software should be taking advantage of you instead of the other way around.
You have to admit, there are plenty of people either on Reddit (especially) or Lemmy, that seem to crack on/bash on certain companies or views on topics as a heard mentality. I’m guilty of it in the past bc I wanted to trust the heard, but after doing my own research have found whatever it was to not be so bad.
I’ve not been here long, but man, the amount of hate I’ve seen towards proton so far is crazy.
Yeah and all of that hate is deserved, because their products suck, and so do the people who run the company.
Hahaha, please, do share why their products suck, especially the people running it! I’d love to hear something fresh other than claiming the CEO is some trumpster because of some ruin fill interpretation of a god damn tweet… Petty
What have the people behind Proton done wrong? I only use them for email and will switch to another provider if it is egregious, I value these sorts of things greatly (any alternatives to look into?) Edit: I do pay 40 euro yearly for email through them. Do not care at all for their other offerings.
You sound like the kind of person who, in the 90s, would have defended Microsoft against GNU and Linux and the FOSS movement as a whole, “This is the way the world works.” No. I was using Keepass prior to Proton Pass. Proton proved to be a downgrade in every way. As a company they are in the same bracket as Ubuntu - trojan horse style grifters who wave juuust enough open-source around to lull users into dependency on a service that overall does not support user freedoms. They are grifters. It’s the same playbook as Google.
Software needs to be free on every level. It’s fine to sell free software, but if any part of it is proprietary, it’s as the FSF says - it’s a tool of unjust power over you.
And I don’t need that. Better alternatives already exist. Proton was straight up a downgrade.
So then, like many people, make the switch without being so vocally negative? Or post a comparison on how KeePass vs Proton- KP wins, etc.
Even more, Proton and other companies like them are a good popular gateway to introduce “the masses” to privacy and what it feels like to reclaim their personal lives. It also gives them a “big” name they can put some faith into that the apps will work/won’t crash, and aren’t invasive. So much other marketing and money is spent telling everyone the little guys are the hackers and data thieves, etc. So don’t trust them. So, the mentality is hard to shake.
I sound like the kind of person who understands how business models work (to an extent). Not every single person is going to setup full homelab environments to run all these locally hosted services, or spend a while researching and testing various FOSS applications to try and get "the very best"one. You sound like the kind of person who has a very stern opinion and gets upset when others don’t agree or your shouting doesn’t get them to understand why an alternative is better.
I work with a lot of users who don’t understand the basics of privacy or how data is sucked up at every corner of the Internet. I slowly plant the seeds to show them big names aren’t always better. Little by little they’re finding these things (popular little guys) on their own, and in that discovery keeps their interests piqued vs being told what to do.
Vaultwarden is free. Bitwarden is free. Bitwarden Premium is 10€/year.
For what it offers, Proton is pretty expensive. They are also making inter-operation with other services difficult or impossible.
There’s much worse, but they aren’t that great either.
Ok, thank you. A sensible response.
I think their appeal and approach is to target newbies to the whole privacy thing. They can replace much of the “Gooplesoft” ecosystems (just made that up that word lol) with their own version, offer support for those who’re learning/trucks migrating, etc. Maybe they overheard someone talk about it, are curious, or don’t know all the terminology in the FOSS community, or get overwhelmed easily.
I will forever plug Proton (unless they change) to friends and family as it’s a “big name” doing big tech, better… then they have proton support to rely on, not me lol.
Yeah, I usually approach this stuff from the standpoint of someone who is already actively self-hosting. For people stuck in Google/MS, it is certainly better.
Download BitWarden and be done with it.
If you can, just self-host vault warden (compatible with bit warden and supported). Gets your data out of the cloud entirely.
I’m with you, but the hosted subscription is miles more secure than I can make my installation, and at $10 per year probably cheaper than the electricity to self host. Plus it supports the devs.
But I do make regular backups in case I need to migrate.
Your first point is debatable. You still have to trust them to be that secure, and you can’t verify that. If they are ever breached, it’s literally the worst case scenario. You can self-host their solution, but only in the enterprise tier (6$ per user per month). Also BitWarden is a target woth attacking, I am not. BitWarden hosts thousands of instances worthy of being attacked individually. A personal VaultWarden instance of “Mike and Molly Peterson” isn’t exactly an attractive target. I do think they are pretty secure, but a single mistake with these stakes can have immense consequences. LastPass was also breached repeatedly, with a similar buiseness model.
The second point about electricity wouldn’t be true in my particular case, as the server for self-hosting it is running anyway. Running VaultWarden or not doesn’t change the power usage noticably. Obviously this is different for someone who doesn’t just have a server at home running anyway.
Side note: I’m not actually running a personal VaultWarden instance, as my personal requirements are being met just fine with KeePass files. We do run an instance at work, but it isn’t world-accessible (internal access only).
Why are you suggesting self hosting vaultwarden instead of self hosting bitwarden?
It’s much lighter on the resources while having the exact same functionality.
Self hosting BitWarden still means it’s accessbile for them and/or from them.
You also have no way to audit their security from what I understand. VaultWarden is FOSS, if you want to, you can go check. And it does get checked by people with the competence to check this do every now and then.[Edit: I forgot that BitWarden is actually souce-available as well, while not being FOSS that’s still better than most solutions]. I just prefer full FOSS whenever possible. I prefer it not be a black bos I just happen to run on my own server.If you self host VaultWarden, the instance can just be not accessible from the internet, and only from behing a VPN. Obviously this is inherently much safer. If that’s possible with the self-host option I don’t know, but even just for licensing the local instance will have to be able to reach their servers (possibly be reachable from their servers, too). I did see they got an “offline deployment” option for air-gapped servers, but haven’t looked into what limitations that entails.
Additionally, you’re still within their licensing model. So for certain features you need to have a not-free account (like even just more than 2 people).
And like others said, VaultWarden is much lighter on resources in general and you aren’t limited in what you can and can’t do (users, collecitons, auth-options, …).
You can even self host it… And easily export your data from their hosted solution to your own.
Keepass is tried and true, I’m going back to Keepass.
Welcome back 👍
Bitwarden doesn’t do any of the stuff that makes proton pass extremely usable. You can’t easily manage logins and create them on the fly with custom emails in bit/vaultwarden. That is by far the most valuable feature of proton pass IMO, the seamless integration with simplelogin is just so damn convenient.
Bitwarden has an integration with simplelogin too. Enter an api key and it can generate random aliases on the fly.
Where? I can’t seem to find that option anywhere in my bitwarden app
Edit: NVM found it, it’s just hidden by several clicks before it’s an option.
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KeepassXC + Syncthing has worked fine for me for a few years. Sure, it’s a bit of a hassle and not exactly perfect, but nothing is. I have control over my data and I don’t have to pay anyone anything, that’s enough for me.
Also, tasty entrees 🤤
If you don’t host your own data, you don’t own it.
🫡
This is the route I’m taking. Keepass has always been tried and true. I switched from Keepass to Proton Pass for a while, and in more ways than this one complaint it has been very much a downgrade.
Proton does not know how to make quality software.
I use KeepassXC with rclone, and that works well too.
Good tip, thanks
shaken down by Proton to pay even more money
What are you paying for currently?
I had to look into it, because their pricing plans seem to have changed now. Evidently I have something called Proton Plus, $4.99 per month. It looks like that plans benefits do not extend to additional Proton Pass features.
I’m going to be transferring accounts away from Proton and then closing my accounts entirely. Already moved all my passwords back to Keepass. My main email address has been on posteo(.de), which has been great. Super reliable service from a company who appears to actually get the ethos of FOSS. I only pay, I think $12 per year for their service.
Yeah I thought so. If ya don’t pay for it, ya don’t get to complain about it, bud.
I’m sorry, but what? Number one, we’re talking about text. Bytes of data, which costs next to nothing to store. If you think that it is in any way fair for a company to allow a person to enter information into an account, and then unexpectedly charge them to access that same data, you are insane. If you paid for a storage rental, moved your belongings into it, and then found that the company changed the lock and decided you had to pay more to get your stuff - would you continue renting that storage?
Go back to reddit, corposhill.
we’re talking about text. Bytes of data, which costs next to nothing to store.
No but your files are not stored as text files. That’s not what you’re paying for. You’re paying for the development of the software used to create, store and fill them at the appropriate times and places. If you don’t care about that, just keep them stored as text files on your computer. Boom, problem solved.
If you paid for a storage rental, moved your belongings into it, and then found that the company changed the lock and decided you had to pay more to get your stuff
You keep using that phrase. You are not “paying more” because you never paid anything in the first place.
Go back to reddit, corposhill.
If you think Reddit is the only place that’s going to call you out for being a choosy beggar, you’re in for a surprise.
No but your files are not stored as text files. That’s not what you’re paying for. You’re paying for the development of the software used to create, store and fill them at the appropriate times and places. If you don’t care about that, just keep them stored as text files on your computer. Boom, problem solved.
But you say just below this that I never paid for anything in the first place? In any case, whether paid or not, they still have to compete with other options including free ones like Keepass. Why would I pay for Proton over the free Keepass if Proton is basically ransomware?
You keep using that phrase. You are not “paying more” because you never paid anything in the first place.
Untrue. I was paying for it, and they required that I pay even more just to access the data that their system allowed me to enter.
If you think Reddit is the only place that’s going to call you out for being a choosy beggar, you’re in for a surprise.
You rn:
you say just below this that I never paid for anything in the first place?
Excuse me, let me correct myself: That’s what you’re not paying for. Better? Does that make you anymore correct?
Why would I pay for Proton over the free Keepass if Proton is basically ransomware?
KeePass is local storage. It’s not managed. But by all means, If you don’t see the value, use KeePass. Not sure what you’re complaining here for.
I was paying for it
Okay, so you stopped paying for it. That’s why you can no longer access it. You can still export your data and import it into KeePass. So go do it.
You rn:
- Proton is most certainly not a multi-billion dollar corporation, moron.
- Your argument suggest that corporations aren’t possibly able to hold a valid argument. I’m not siding with the corporations, I’m siding with basic logic and reason. It’s not complicated. You are not entitled to anything they offer if you don’t pay for it.
Pretty sure the warning signs were apparent when the CEO submitted to Trump. it just his “personal beliefs” and not representative of the company. Right.
The CEO was lobbying for online privacy by publicly shaming the Democrats. He was doing his job.
Why is it that just doing their job excuse or just following orders tends to be associated with questionable actions as opposed to positive ones? It’s starting to seem like a red flag if those two phrases get used for an action.
He made a mean tweet about the Democrats, it’s not like he loaded bullets into ICE guns.
Complimentary remarks to Republicans depicting them as a party open to being privacy respecting and respect for the rule of law. Took the Joe Rogan hand book of trying to sane wash the Republicans and downplay concerns regarding them while trying to come off as moderate.
And it aged terribly. Someone who went to Harvard and spent significant time in the US wasn’t blind to what those way less educated than him saw when it came to the direction the US was headed towards before Trump officially took office.
He was rightfully criticized because Trump never hid his intentions during the election, so people were not impressed by the pandering like all the current tech bros part of the Trump inner circle.
Am I the only on that read the situation as he could only get GOP folks to be receptive that day? Like if it would have been dems it would have been the other way around. My wife went to DC to lobby for an issue and tried both parties. It’s a thing they do. He never specifically said he actually preferred one over the other, just that he got the response. I’m more interested in what the specific lobbying effort was. I am suspicious of them only because they are lobbying in US in the first place and because I’m suspicious of everything at this point. There was no damning info in the reporting on this issue.
Wait the Democrats respond to public shaming? At this point I thought they got off on it. He was doing his job but, he was kissing fascist ass just like Google, Microsoft, and Apple have not lobbying for privacy.
Yeah, I tried to be charitable and assume they were just ignorant of how bad Trump is. I should have known better.
Bitwarden offers this feature for free using custom fields, although 2FA is paid unless you self-host IIRC
Vaultwarden is a great self hosted bitwarden clone
I haven’t personally hosted it myself but I’ve heard it’s pretty good, also worth vouching for KeePass based on my time with it
I know someone that signed up for an account with them, they froze it immediately for suspicious activity. He does nothing with that IP address, reads, social media, that’s it. No way to get off the shit list without giving up personal information like a phone number and or alternate email and no guarentee that would fix it.
Their IP was on a blacklist from some shady company for some strange reason. But other companies let you write the company and plead your case, proton does not.
They further suspended a bunch of accounts based on some half baked unproven accusations by the government(s) if I recall.
They aren’t trustworthy, they will give you up at the first sign of friction it appears.
OMG I thought I was the only child of Mr and Mrs Upgrade, of Upgrade street, Upgrade! Maybe we’re related?
being shaken down by Proton to pay even more money
Obviously you’re free to do as you please and its not an airport, you don’t have to announce your departure. But there’s no such thing as free service. Posting angry tirades seems counter productive.
I’d recommend self-hosting. Then you don’t have to worry about privacy, getting data hijacked or getting ripped off by sudden cost increases.
There’s no “there’s no such thing as free service”, and there’s “we are going to hold your data hostage until you pay”. This is the second, and unless they give you a way to export the fields, it’s a violation of GDPR article 20.
If they are holding data hostage yes that is a problem but if you use the export option I would bet it gives all the info.
Nothing is free, but there are proper ways to sell open-source and still respect user freedom. Proton’s model is no different than Ubuntu’s or Google’s model. It’s a grift.
Bitwarden ! Host it yourself.
Vaultwarden 😎
Will host that myself eventually, but a little scared by hardware prices. All I have is a desktop PC with a 700W PSU, probably unsuitable as a home lab.
I’ve been homelabbing for a couple years now, and it’s still just a desktop PC with a 450W PSU, it even has a Jellyfin server with some light transcoding. I’d highly recommend trying out a server you don’t mind breaking and play around, you’d be surprised what you can do!
??? I use Proton mail and I never saw something like this. Account with nick, other mail, password and go.
It’s in Proton Pass. When you create an account entree, there is an option to create additional fields that you can name and fill out, kind of like multiple notes in one file. Somehow I was able to create those fields on my account just fine, but then to be given access to that data it turned out that I had to upgrade my account. In other words they duped me into entering data at no extra cost, but then charged me to access that same data later on.
I don’t use it. Mail is fine, I don’t need other than this. For all other apps, there are tons of FOSS alternatives out there.
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Because a bunch of dementia patients started leaving 1 star review as they kept on forgetting their passwords
But I don’t understand, were you already a premium member when you were prompted to pay more?
I had to look into it again because their pricing models are weird and confusing. My current plan is something called Proton Plus, $4.99 per month, and evidently the benefits do not extend to Pass.
Oh yeah, this is a very annoying pricing model. Proportionally very expensive for each individual part/product, but then a proportionally lower price for the whole thing. But in absolute amounts, more money was payed.
The closest example I can think of is fast food cup sizes.
What they want is for you to think “Hmm I need a VPN and an email, but it’s cheaper to just buy the whole unlimited package”
Can you still access the info by hitting edit? It was possible last time I checked. Even so, yeah, I’m thinking a transition to bitwarden is not a bad idea.
According to other comments in this thread, Bitwarden does similar crap. I went back to Keepass.
As for the data, luckily it was for an account I don’t need or use anymore, so I just deleted everything and moved on.
